168 : Health, Happiness, and Living in the Present with Diandra Denier-Fields
01:10:58 Share

Welcome to the Mindful Fire podcast. If you're enjoying the show, please leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. My dad will be so grateful. See you next time on the Mindful Fire podcast. ♪

Welcome to the Mindful Fire Podcast, a show about crafting a life you love and making work optional using the tools of mindfulness, envisioning, and financial independence. I'm your host, Adam Kwayo, and I'm so glad you're here. Each episode of the Mindful Fire Podcast explores these three tools through teachings, guided meditations, and inspiring interviews with people actually living them to craft a life they love.

At its core, mindful fire is about creating more awareness and choice in your life. Mindfulness helps you develop self-awareness to know yourself better and what's most important to you by practicing a kind, curious awareness. Envisioning is all about choosing to think big about your life and putting the power of your predicting brain to work to create the life you dream of.

And financial independence brings awareness and choice to your financial life, empowering you to make your vision a reality by getting your money sorted out and ultimately making work optional. And here's the best part. You don't have to wait until you reach financial independence to live out your vision. Mindful Fire is about using these tools to craft that life now on the path to financial independence and beyond.

Let's jump into today's episode.

Deandra, welcome to the Mindful Fire podcast. I'm so glad to have you here. Hi, Adam. Thanks for having me. It's been a long time in the works, but I'm glad that we're finally having a chance to have this conversation. Me too. Yeah, you've been so patient as I've had to reschedule numerous times because I had COVID and all sorts of things going on. But here we are, we're making it happen, and I'm so happy to have you here. And I'm excited to dive into this conversation about

not waiting to live the life that you dream of. This is why we're pursuing financial independence in the first place is to create a life we love. So I'm excited to dive into that and to also explore how investing in your health fits into this. Before we get into any of that, I'd love to have you start, Deandra, by sharing with the audience a little bit about who you are, your journey, and what you're up to in the world. Absolutely. Yeah. So

I am a nutritional scientist by trade. So I just recently graduated last summer from the University of Wisconsin and I got a PhD in nutritional sciences. And I also did a minor in epidemiology, which basically means that I can study the population and look at how different choices

in our lifestyle, in our diets, impact chronic diseases. So my research right now is focused on Alzheimer's disease, but it's really interesting that a lot of the lifestyle factors that can help for Alzheimer's disease and brain health actually help a lot across a lot of different chronic conditions. So I myself am also a two-time cancer survivor and

And so I came to the financial independence movement actually via my husband. So when we were first dating, Brad and I, we had moved in together and we'd started making these plans of traveling young. So we had known that a lot of our family members and friends would do small vacations, but they would put off those really big trips, like those bucket list trips, and

until they were 65 or older in that retirement. And as I had gotten cancer when I was 23, I was in my master's program in cell molecular biology, and I really wanted to be a cancer researcher. That was my goal. I realized that

I don't know if I'm going to make it to 65. I know it's a little bit morbid to think about that, your mortality, but I can guarantee that my old age would be super healthy and one where I could travel a lot. So as we approached this financial independence concept, we started planning like our first trip. It was that we wanted to go to Ireland.

We wanted to zigzag across the country for two weeks and see a different culture. And as we were approaching saving for this trip, we've gotten to a certain point where we had to decide. So our rent had been going up and we knew it's that rent increase that we wouldn't be able to do this trip when we wanted to. And

And so Brad looked at me and he's like, do you want this apartment with the nice granite countertops or do you want this trip to Ireland? And without hesitation, I looked back at him and I said, Ireland, let's move and let's find a more affordable apartment.

So that was really at the beginning of our financial independence journey. We had listened to podcasts and he had really gotten into it through Mr. Money Mustache, Pete Adney. So I do got to give a shout out to Pete and to Brad because I came at it being a scientist thinking I'm going to retire when I die.

Because in the academic field, that's really what you do. You work forever and your life's work is your research. So to me, it was a very odd concept to think about like,

What if I stepped away and who would I be if I wasn't a scientist anymore? So that was really the beginning of our financial journey. And we have since done five international trips in seven years. And we really just have made sure to live in the moment and say that $5,000 to $6,000 that we would spend on that trip

may add a year to our SWI number, but that's okay because we're living in the now and we're creating these memories. There's so much there. That is a wonderful way to start this conversation. And where else did you go? I mean, I got a lot of questions, but I want to know where else you went. Yeah, yeah. So we actually flipped back and forth on deciding. So Ireland was one that we both agreed on.

And then we went to Peru for Brad's 30th birthday. He wanted to be up at Machu Picchu. So we got up super early in the morning and hiked up to the top of Machu Picchu. Then we went to Canada for my 30th because I figured it's our neighbor. It's America's hat.

As some people might say. So I really wanted to go up there. And then we went for our honeymoon. So we got married during the pandemic, which actually worked out kind of well for us because we are more introverted people. And so we wanted a smaller wedding. We ended up driving across the country. We're living in Wisconsin for my program.

And we drove back to Maryland where our family was and had this really small intimate ceremony. And then a couple months later, we actually went down to Tulum, Mexico for our delayed honeymoon then. So that was really fun.

And the last trip that we did was to Italy. Now, this was a little bit different. So my mom, about six months before my breast cancer diagnosis that I had at 33, she had been diagnosed with stage four metastatic breast cancer.

And it was a very challenging time. I was living 800 miles away and I was the one that had lived through cancer before. And the rest of my siblings were really great and supportive, but they didn't have that cancer background that I did. So Brad and I, we would fly back or drive back every month and we spent a week with her every time.

And it was really a really transformative time for me because I realized that like every time that I was there, it was precious. Every moment we had together was precious. And every time I left, I worried that was the last time that I saw her.

As she was going through these treatments, she started chemotherapy. She started getting a little bit better. I sat down with her and Brad and my dad and said, if you could go anywhere in the world, like your bucket list trip, where would you want to go? And she looked at me and said, well, I don't know. But what I would want to do would be to one, eat good food and two, drink good wine.

And so we decided on Italy from there and we just started planning this trip. And she was on oxygen treatments at the time. And I remember looking up and saying, can you bring oxygen on a plane? How do you do this? We were planning to get this big villa that she could just stay at for most of the trip. So even if she couldn't go anywhere, she would have a wonderful view and just feel like she was really submerged in Italy.

And as we were approaching the script coming up, I got my diagnosis. And some people asked me like, oh, so you're definitely going to cancel the Italy trip, right? Because you need to stay here and take care of your health.

And I said, absolutely not. No, we really need to go now more than ever. But this may be our only chance to go as a family. And it was a real turning point, too, for my treatment because I'd been on some treatments before surgery, kind of putting it off. And on that trip, I decided, look, if the scans aren't

what we want, if they're not, if the cancer isn't shrinking, then I have to make a choice. And so I decided when I came back, I would get the updated scan. And if it said anything negative, I was going into surgery. And that's actually the route that ended up happening. But I was so glad that I got to take this trip, this once in a lifetime trip,

With my parents that they will cherish that memory forever. He said, well, we. That's incredible. That really it sounds like your diagnosis, your mom's diagnosis really just put into focus what's important and that tomorrow is not guaranteed to anyone, as my dad always says. And I've observed it in others. It's given me some wake up calls, but it's another thing to live through it.

How did that change your thinking about starting to live the life that you really want to live? My first cancer diagnosis was the, OK, go out there and make a difference. Get your career, get things started, start helping people, make that money, retire early kind of thing. But this one really shifted it to more living in the present.

that we don't know how much longer we have on this earth. Like, let's face it, you could get, you know, struck by lightning or hit by a car. These things happen every day. Unfortunately, people die young and they have no warning of it. So then I really shifted to the thinking of if I didn't have to work for money, then what would I do? And

Last year, I went to the economy conference and my friend Jess from the five years that you've had on this podcast, she gave a presentation that was all about this, about designing a life that you don't want to retire from. And that was one of her big questions. What would you do for money if you didn't need any more?

And that really got me thinking that I do like research and I like doing things like that. But really, if I didn't need another dollar in my life, I would help cancer survivors. I would help people that are concerned because they have a high family history of cancer. I would give them the tools to prevent cancer or at least know that they've done all that they could, even if they get it. Because...

The biggest thing that I took away from my two diagnoses is the first time I had a lot of regret. I rushed through treatment. I wanted to be over as soon as possible.

And I made a lot of decisions that looking back, I would have changed. Moving forward, I'm thinking of the now, but what's my health in 10 years? And I think that's something that as cancer survivors, you're told to just make the decision now, your life now matters. Yes, but what is the life that we're preserving? What am I going to go to after this? When I recover, what is that going to look like? So...

Helping cancer survivors is really where my heart was sitting. And I knew that, but I was concerned that I couldn't handle the emotional stress that I'm going to watch people pass away. There's going to be people I can't help. But then I think about if there's at least one person that hears what I'm talking about, that takes a pause, that makes their own decision,

then I've made a difference. And I thought about, why don't I start creating that now? Like I shifted actually away from full-time work. So I could go be a scientist. I have a PhD. I could make more money than I've ever made. But I realized that it was more important for me to do the work that will be my legacy. Right?

rather than to make the money. I've downshifted since then. I now work part time. I work four days a week. I work fully remotely. And that one day a week that I have off is what I spend building the things that I want to have in five years. Because if I don't start now, in five years, I'm not going to have anything. Yeah, very true. So, Deandra, you said that

There were some decisions you made with your first diagnosis that you made to get through it as fast as possible, but you might have made different decisions looking back. Can you share an example of that and kind of how you would think about it differently now? Sure. Yeah, the thing that really sticks out to me is the surgery. So as soon as I was diagnosed, it was very quick. I went to my primary care. I said, hey, I have this lump in my neck.

She measured it and immediately sent me to oncology. Didn't even mention anything, which was kind of bizarre. They did all these diagnostic testing, found out it was positive. They said it was stage one cancer, but it was in the lymph nodes. So this is the weird thing about thyroid cancer. Even though it has spread from the original site, which is the thyroid and it's gotten to the lymph nodes, this would normally be stage three for any other type of cancer.

But for thyroid cancer, it's so curable and you have so many lymph nodes that are in your neck that they can go ahead and take a lot of them out and it's still considered stage one. So the thing that I had signed on for was doing the surgery with...

without looking to see, is there any other treatment that I could have done ahead of time? Could I have changed my diet? I've heard about people that had thyroid cancer and reversed it because of their dietary shifts. And I did not do any of that and I didn't know about it. So,

I look back and after working with a therapist a lot, we've decided that you knew only what you knew back then. And you didn't know then what you know now.

So you made the choice. You made the only choice because that was the one that you made. So we shouldn't have this shame or blame mentality. Like I love the book, Your Money or Your Life by Vicki Robbins. So we think of that in the financial field as, oh, I don't want to sacrifice my life hours for money, but it actually really does relate to the cancer field. If you think about

then no shame, no blame. So I got into debt, right? You could say that I got into debt because I didn't know about investing and saving. The same thing as I had cancer and I made these choices like to go into surgery immediately because I didn't know that there were alternatives. So I see that as the same thing. And now moving forward that I've learned a lot about nutrition and

I actually learned about plant-based nutrition, and that's really what led me down the road to go back to school and to get a PhD in nutritional sciences. I think that we can regret our past decisions, but really kind of readdressing that and getting that closure that you made the best decision for yourself at the time.

And what we can do is not do the same thing moving forward. Yeah, no, I think that applies to so much of our life that we are making decisions with the information that we have and we're going to have different information in the future and it might change things. But yeah, I think that's really interesting to hear that. Yeah, like you kind of went into that and there were financial and health and all sorts of consequences, not necessarily good or bad, but subsequent things that happened.

And yeah, you could have

chosen a different, a different path with that. You went to the economy conference last year and you attended Jess's session about creating a life you love, which as anyone who's ever listened to this show is very near and dear to my heart and my purpose. Um, and if you haven't listened to that episode with Jess, I think it's episode 96, go and listen to that. It's, it's wonderful, but sounds like that really lit a fire under you to say, Hey, look like

I'm building some level of financial independence. I have more options than I ever had before. Why don't I use those options? I talked to a lot of people in the fire movement and I find that people, they think that what they want is out there in the future and it's in retirement or it's in early retirement or it's after X, Y, Z happens, then they can start doing the thing that they want. But I think that most people overlook that

Most of what we want, we either have already or we can have very easily. There are big and small ways that you can start to act on the thing that you want and start creating that life now. And as you said before, if you don't start building it now.

In five years, you're not going to have it. I'm a huge believer in that. I mean, I teach it to other people as well, but it does feel in the moment that like, ah, it's scary. It's scary to get started and it's scary to start walking that path. So I'd love to hear a little bit more. You mentioned you're working part time. How are you taking that to heart? How are you and Brad kind of both together working?

Creating that life that you love now rather than waiting until you hit some arbitrary amount of money, as people often do. Brian and I together. So he is on this mini retirement. So he did one for

Early on, which was actually after he was getting ready to graduate from his master's program, he had completed all of the coursework for this master's programs. And then he just needed to do this capstone research project so that he could walk away with his degree. He went to his employer and said, hey, could I work part time? Because I need to make time to do this project. And if I don't do it, then I won't be able to graduate.

And they said, no, we need you full time. So he was at this decision point where he could take the money or he could leave it and he could finish something that he had started. And this is something that we'd mentioned in the TaskBinders book from JL Collins, that we had this as one of the first things that really showed us the power of FDU money. So

When he was going through this decision, they said, you know, you have to stay. He said, I'm going to leave then. And he went and he took that last semester. He finished his project. He started looking for jobs in the environmental science field. And he ended up with a job at one of the local parks nearby us because he had a choice to go to BioThex.

to go where he had originally made a lot of his money that was invested, or he could go and follow his dreams and try something new. So that was one of the first times that he tried deploying this FU money. And then when I graduated with my PhD and we were moving back to the East Coast from Wisconsin, it came to the same thing. So he went to his employer and said,

I'm going to be moving. I would need a fully remote position in order to keep working for this team. And they said, no, we need you in person. And so that was another time that he said, we don't want to keep living here. So I'm going to leave. And he said, thank you for your time. And he started his second mini retirement in May of 2023.

And so he is still on that right now. And he took a lot of time to decompress from the work that...

it's very stressful when you're working 40, 50, 60 hours and it's a high stress job. He was working for a pharmaceutical company. So some of the medications that I took for my cancer, that's the kind of things that he was working on there. And I think him taking the time to step back and saying,

What do I want with my years looking forward was really important for him. And he's gotten a lot of support recently now from our family saying, don't go back to the high stress, to the jobs that doesn't fill you up. Instead, go for the options and go after that.

that dream job, that dream field that he really wants. And even if it means less money, I fully support him because throughout his mini retirement, I've still been working. But when I went from biotech industry as a scientist down to a PhD student, I cut like 70% of my income.

And I realized that, yes, we need money and we need to be able to provide for ourselves. But once you hit that slow-fi where you don't really need to invest a lot more for your 65-year-old retirement, then you can focus more on the now. And so that's what I've been really doing with my new brand that I created after that conference with Jeff. I started Cancer-Free Haven. And

And I've been giving a lot of just free information out to other cancer survivors just to help them here and there. And it's filled me up so much that I have started working on an online course for cancer survivors. I call it

thrive from the start. And it's exactly what I wish I had when I was first diagnosed with breast cancer. So like, how do you navigate when you get this diagnosis and you have no idea what any of these scientific words mean? And then they want you to choose a treatment plan. And you also have no idea like, what is the best thing for me if I want to have children in the future?

You have to make a different decision than somebody who's already done with their family. And these are very relevant questions for young women with breast cancer that if you're a 65-year-old woman, you don't really care about that. You are already postmenopausal. You don't have to worry about

all these different options. So I've just been taking this extra time that the flexibility that this part-time work has given me and working remotely means that on Mondays, it's my business day. I can make things. I can create this e-course. And then in the evenings, I didn't have to commute. So if I feel like

it's a Friday night and I want to record a live video with another cancer survivor, then I can do that. It's been less about the money and more about what I'm doing with my time and more about creating a legacy and not living with regrets. So even if I don't retire as a successful entrepreneur,

I will know that I put it out into the world, that I created this thing that had the potential to help others. And I think regardless of what your passion is, it can help other people. And that's why I really love the Mindful Fire podcast. It is making a difference and it is helping others regardless if it brings in money. Yeah, I can attest it does not. I'm just kidding.

No, not yet. Not directly, I should say. But no, I really love the clarity and intentionality that you are living and communicating right here. It's what I aspire to. I put this stuff out here. This is me figuring out what I want to do in quote unquote retirement.

It's me not not waiting until I'm retired or whatever to start living the life. You know, I started this podcast thinking I wanted to be a mindfulness teacher. Turns out I don't necessarily want to be a mindfulness teacher. I want mindfulness to be a part of my life and a part of what I do, but not the whole thing. I really appreciate what you're kind of sharing here about.

Choosing to prioritize what you're spending your time on and how you're spending your time rather than like just trying to accumulate as much money as fast as possible. I've struggled with this in my own life because I'm very fortunate to have a good job, a high paying job that has its challenges, has its stress for sure, but has been very good to me on the whole.

And I think a lot of people listening to this probably are in a situation where maybe they have the golden handcuffs or maybe they have, you know, meaning they have some stock that is a large part of their salary that if they leave, they give that up. It sounds like both you and Brad have given some of that up to reprioritize into something different that may have a lower take home pay. I'm curious how.

How do you think about that on your trajectory to financial independence? Just in general, like making less money when you could make more, I guess. I don't know. Yeah. So so that's really interesting, I think.

I was more accepting of it slowing down our five journey than Brad was necessarily to start with. So when I went back to my PhD program, I had a target. I said, before I go to this program and make very little money,

I wanted to have $75,000 invested so that it could grow while I was going back to school and while I was learning. And so I had hit that. And I think I actually ended up with about six figures before I went back.

So it was enough that it could do some work while I was working on myself. And the first year that I was there, I was like, look, I'm making like less than $30,000. So I was like, there's no way I can invest on less than $30,000. And then I realized after I've been working with Jeffs for a while, that's a limiting belief.

The $30,000 is not enough to be able to invest in. And now Brad did go back to work. So he got a job at the university and he was making maybe $60,000. So together, $90,000. And I looked at that and I said, we're in a low tax bracket right now. So what I'm going to do is open up a Roth type of account.

And so I put money in after taxes. So he was doing the 401k contributions. We found an apartment that we could pay for on my salary, believe that, in the Midwest. And then we just really focused on like making sure that we were intentional. So how do we really enjoy spending our money and putting it towards that and not necessarily having all the things? Yes, we need some sacrifices, but

But we really enjoyed the things that we spent our money towards. So that really helped me to get out of that mindset. I said, just do 10%, do it after taxes, enjoy the flow tax bracket because you're not making a lot of money, and then that can grow. And so now I'm here after I graduated, it took me four years to graduate, and I'm like,

And I had $15,000 in that account, which it could have been zero. So I put this as one of my like pots of money, like my young person money. So when I was working in the biotech industry, I had done this with a brokerage account. I had about eight, 10 grand in that. And I used that to help pay for the Italy trip with my mom. I said, I don't need that money sitting there.

I want to take her to a place where she can enjoy herself. And we also took about $5,000 of that money to help do some renovations around the house, set up her bedroom, buy a new bed. Like all these things that on my $30,000 salary, I could not have done that. But because I had saved and invested,

Instead of looking at this as my old person, like, oh, I need to get retired before I use that. I looked at it as my opportunity fund. What can I do now? And then I don't have to touch my 401k. So as you're talking about where we're at on the FI journey, in this past year or eight months that Brad has been in and then your retirement, we actually hit our 50% to our FI number.

and a time when he's not earning. And I'm earning decent money more than I did as a PhD student, but still not the level that I left before my program. So it's crazy that we've passed this tipping point where the investments can grow and throw off dividends and having that reinvested has continued us on our path. Now we might be five, 10 years out, but I look at it as if

If I do this business now, if I invest in myself and my community, then that has the potential to scale even more so than I can make in a W-2. When will we retire? I don't know, two years, 10 years, maybe it doesn't matter. But what matters is the impact that we're making. And I told Brad, like, I'd rather you'd be happy and make less money than you'd be miserable and make more money.

Because at the end of the day, I want you to be, you know, with us to be with our family. I mean, I think it's it's so obvious when you say it's like, yeah, of course, of course, you would want to be happy rather than make more money. But like, it's easier said than done sometimes. You know, I think a lot of people find that and it's not all or nothing. That's the other thing. It's like you don't have to leave your high paying job to

create space to do what you want to do or to start living what you want to do. It's like, for instance, you went part time. So you're working part time. You created some space. I love that you do it on Monday. I also did that. I took Mondays off for a while to just kind of like focus on

on my business. Um, I figure start of the week, you know, Fridays are a little slow anyway, sometimes. So Monday is a day where everyone's getting back into it all, all, uh, busy and stuff. And you can take that data to focus on, put that energy towards your own, own project. I love that. And for me, for instance, like I, I have what I call my on the job side hustle where I

teach envisioning and mindfulness and a program about emotional intelligence to other Googlers at Google. And that has been

hugely satisfying and fulfilling for me. And it's really like the start of everything that I'm doing now, right? All the things that I'm considering doing, the podcast, the coaching people on helping getting clear on what their vision is and starting living it now. And a mastermind group I'm putting together on that. All these things are

a result of making that investment in myself. And fortunately, my employer and my boss at the time, Paul, who's amazing, he allowed me to do that. He invested in me to do that, knowing that I was having an impact. I've taught 3,000 Googlers at this point. And that is the highlight of my time at Google. The money that I'm making is great because it gives me options in the future and now, but being able to build this

skill and this interest and this passion while on the job has been amazing. So it's all to say that like it's not one or the other. I really appreciated hearing how you are, how you think about that. And it's awesome to hear like you've reached a tipping point where it's like your money is making money. So you don't necessarily need to make that your number one priority. Exactly. Yeah. If you go to that middle ground where you say,

What if I just worked less, not zero, but what if I just worked less?

Some people call it barista-fi, where all you need is a minimum wage job for part-time every week, and that is enough for you to bridge that gap. So we always think about, as you come into the fi space, you're like, oh, I just need to be fully retired. But I really love the solo fi movement saying that, no, you don't really have to do that. What if we just...

bridge that gap. And so I think about it as, you know, if you could get down to a place where your side hustle makes you $1,000 a month, that's $12,000 less you need to pull out of your 401k, your retirement funds, your rough conversion ladder, whatever you're doing, your strategy, that's that amount less that you need. So you don't even have to have a lot. But for us,

We had seen that, you know, once you hit about a quarter of a million, that was the tipping point. And at least recently, it started to outpace even what we could ingest on our own. So, yeah, it was really cool to observe that. The market does go down. So, yeah.

Having some income means that you don't have to pull out. The reason that our investments hit the 50% was because the mini retirement Brad's on, he had a cash cushion for. So he didn't have to immediately pull on those gains. And instead, he could let them ride. Exactly. I love that. One thing you mentioned there, Deandra, is this idea of an opportunity fund. I

Love that idea. I love the idea of opportunity. So we'd love to hear how you think about opportunity funds. So like the opportunity fund, I see it as like you either have old person money, like 401ks, things that you're not going to pull out for retirement, and young person money as accessible funds. So my opportunity funds was like my brokerage, which is if we want to take a trip, if I need to help someone, if

I just want to invest in myself. Then that was that category. And another really important account that I had was my HSA. A lot of people in the FIRE movement, they say that the HSA is this gold mine. Like you can let that ride and invest in it for 30 years. Then when you retire, then you can pull out of it and you don't have to pay taxes. And it's this special account.

But I actually used the HSA to take care of my health when my income was lower. So when I got diagnosed, I knew that I had enough for my deductible. My out-of-pocket was in that account. I didn't sweat it. I got the treatment that I needed because it was there. And that peace of mind of that account, I think that sometimes goes overlooked that we see that

oh, I can't pull out of that. But even if you're just keeping pace, like you're still going to be saving some money, right? You're not paying the taxes as it comes out of your checking account or your paycheck. You're only paying that, whatever it costs for the healthcare expenses. So at a minimum, you're saving at least 15%, like 15% discount on it. So I feel like the opportunity fund is,

Is money that is not tied up in your net worth number, your, as I spell this, then I won't make fire. Your opportunity fund is allowing you to make the moves now, whether that's using it as FU money to leave your job, going on a once in a lifetime trip or experience that

Sometimes we feel guilty if we invest in ourselves. And I don't think we should. I think we should allow a little bit of that money to be something that, you know, our opportunities during the pandemic was investing. Like we use some of it for that. We had cash as an opportunity fund and dumped it in and watched it grow. So it can be different things, I think. Got it. Yeah, I love that. I love that concept.

So you mentioned this idea of using your opportunity fund to invest in yourself. That has been something that I have been getting better at, but has been a challenge. And I have tried to think more about investing in my myself, investing in my health, investing in my fitness, thinking about things, investing in financial wellness and financial security and financial independence.

Worked out very well for me. So I'm trying to apply that investing mindset to other areas of life that have been a little bit more challenging to adopt health, being a big one, fitness, eating healthy. So as a nutritional scientist, PhD, you probably have some insight into this. So would love to hear your thoughts on investing in yourself and your health.

Absolutely. That's a great question, Adam. So as I think about investing in your health,

It goes across multiple facets. Physical activity. So investing in your health and physical activity could look like a gym membership or it could look like a subscription service. So I have the Fitbit. They have a premium service with that. And it gives you these videos. So it'll track your sleep. It'll tell you based on your sleep, you should do this amount of physical activity.

to reach your personal health goals. And here are some videos that we've suggested. So they've done this really nice, like, streamlined approach to if we're monitoring your sleep, your step count, your activity minutes, then what should you do to maintain your health and probably improve that as well? So physical activity is one that I think people are

are really easy to convince. Okay, yes, I know working at the gym will make me more fit, will be stronger. But then I think when it comes to nutrition, that is more of a loaded topic, right? That it's not as simple as, oh, I'm just going to eat healthy and then therefore I'll feel better because everyone's idea of healthy eating is different. I do want to tackle nutrition

Before I get into a couple suggestions, the concept in the Phi movement, that you shouldn't have to live on rice and beans. Like rice and beans are a deprivation kind of state. I wanted to revisit this because

From a nutritional standpoint, rice redeems are actually really healthy for you. So if you look at brown rice, so white rice is all tallest, they remove a lot of the fiber, a lot of the flavor. So I refer to brown rice as my go-to. So this is actually going to help you to slowly digest your carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are actually not good or bad. We have both

Simple carbohydrates, which could be like a processed food like sugar, that your body is going to metabolize almost instantly. And then if you're not using that energy, then it can store it as fat. So that's where carbohydrates get the bad rap.

But then we have these complex carbohydrates, which are found in whole grains, rice, things like that, that are going to be lower for you to digest. So it actually can help to lower your blood sugar. So it's really good for diabetics. It has high fiber that can help to lower your cholesterol as well. So there is in the...

J.L. Collins' original book, The Simple Path to Wealth, he has that story of the parable of the monk and the minister. There we go. You got it right there. So he says, the minister says to the monk, you know, if you could learn to cater to the king, then you wouldn't have to live on rice and beans. And which the monk replies, well, if you could learn to live on rice and beans, then you wouldn't have to cater to the king.

So the flip side of that is we know that rice is, you know, a really good complex carbohydrate for you. Beans...

actually one of the foods that is found across all of the blue zones. And so the blue zones is a study by Dan Buechner. And he went and he was looking for these regions that had the most population of centenarians, so people living to 100 or more. And so what he found was this common thread that all of these groups, they had a starch like a potato or rice or something like that as a base. And then

And then they also incorporated beans. So beans are a great source of protein and they really do help to supplement. If you do eat meat, then you get some protein from the beans and you're going to get some protein from the meat. And beans actually help to improve your gut microbiome. So there are certain bacteria...

that will only be produced in your body if you eat the beans. And these are going to strengthen your gut microbiome. And when you have a healthy gut, then you have a healthy mind as well. So we know that there's a connection between the gut and the brain, and it sends positive signals when you have

healthy bacteria growing in there. But when you have it being overwhelmed, so if you partake in a lot of alcohol, you're eating a lot of red meat,

less fiber, then these negative bacteria, these unhealthy bacteria can take over and they will release toxins into your bloodstream. And it can actually form as almost a depressant. So they've done studies looking at antidepressants like the medications versus food interventions. And so one of the things that they found is that these beans are creating dysfunctions

this diverse gut microbiome, and they're producing bacteria that you would not see otherwise. So bacteria is good. It is a part of us. It's inside us. It's on our skin. And it's nothing to be feared. But we want to promote the growth of the healthy bacteria rather than the harmful ones. Got it. So eating rice and beans sounds like a good plan. What kind of beans? Any kind of beans?

Kidney beans are great. If you look at like potassium, then the kidney beans are going to be the highest in potassium. But across the board, they have all the different amino acids that we need when we look at

Some people thinking that like meat is superior protein. It's just more readily accessible because it's already formed into the versions that we'll use versus being their different types of protein. So they're still going to have the same amino acids, which are just the building blocks to the proteins that we need, but they're going to be in different levels. So I say that you should eat, it's usually between a fast what's up

to a cup of beans a day. But if you're not eating any beans right now, then you start with like a quarter of a cup and it's fine. So the more that you get the beans in, the higher protein intake you'll have, the stronger that microbiome will get, things like that. But you want to start low and slow. And if you have a reaction, like some people will have gassiness from beans and that's why they stay away from it,

Actually, if you go for something like a chickpea, it doesn't have those compounds in there that would make you have extra gas. So you could just start making your own hummus at home. It's a little bit better to make it at home because you can opt out and say, I'm not going to add any oil. So the traditional hummus is unflavored.

like a tablespoon of tahini, which is sesame feed butter. So you can get this or you can sub out for your favorite kind of nut butter. So I would use cashew butter or sometimes even like a sunflower butter. But if you're not adding olive oil, then it's going to have a lot less of the raw fat content and it's going to have more fiber. So when you use the butter...

with everything in it. It has some oil, but then it also has fiber, which can help slow the digestion and avoid those blood sugar spikes. Got it. Okay. Okay. I don't know anything about this. I grew up on chicken fingers, so that's where I'm at. Let's say that I grew up on chicken finger. Hypothetically, someone grew up on chicken fingers and wants to start eating more healthy.

wants to start doing what we're talking about. Is it just start with beans? Are there other mindsets? Let's talk about mindset, I guess, in terms of this, like investing in your health mindset. Would love to hear your thoughts on that. Because like, it's not like I don't know what healthy food looks like. It's just like making it a habit. So I think the most important thing

is to realize, I have to say, every day is a new opportunity to contribute to your health. So I think of it as more of a low and slow approach, a gradual shifting towards these healthy foods. So I have a list here of like seven things that I do in a day to make sure that I'm eating for my health.

And so the first one on the list is starting with a fiber-filled breakfast like oatmeal or whole grains. So when you have this, you're not eating eggs, cheese, meat. You're going to be lowering your cholesterol.

So it will also help to fill you up for the day. So it's you to start with, okay, I'm going to have oatmeal in the morning. And so when I refer to oatmeal, I say, just go get some oats. If you can afford organic, that is the best because they actually spray glyphosate on the oats to dry them when they're not organic. And that is a pesticide that you will directly ingest. So that's not ideal.

So try to get either sprouted oats or just an organic version like Babs Red Mill. And then you can add whatever you would like to the oatmeal. So you can add raisins, you can add flax seeds, which are going to be high in omega-3s and they help to fight inflammation. So that is always good. We can lower our body's inflammation.

And then, yeah, anything else, like if you like peanut butter, that will give you extra protein. You can add a banana for sweetness and that's also going to give you extra potassium. So just starting with something as simple as saying one meal a day, I'm going to swap out and I'm going to start my day off, I think is an approach to go with. If you aren't a big fan of oatmeal, the other big suggestion I do give is to start with

a daily smoothie and it would be a green based smoothie. So you can put in like two cups of kale or spinach or arugula, any green leafy vegetable like that. Then you add in a fruit. So we use the banana for sweetness and it gives you extra fiber as well.

We add the flax seeds to that. Flax seeds are great for inflammation. They're also good because they can help to reduce your body's exposure to estrogen. So for women, if you're concerned about breast health and breast cancer, then flax seeds are great for that. You can add a protein powder if you like to add those into your smoothies. And then we usually just use like a plant-based milk to top it all.

So that and maybe a cup of fresher freezing fruit, whatever is in the freezer at the time. So this, if you add the protein powder, you can get it up to about 600 calories per

on a regular day. And that's really cool because that's a full meal for you. So even if the rest of the day, your choices for food maybe are less than ideal, you know that you started off with your two servings of fruits, two servings of vegetables, and your flaxseed, you already have a lot better than some people maybe on a traditional American diet, a standard American diet might have done.

I love that. And so here's a chicken finger guy question. My friends call me the chicken man. So here's a question. Like I worked with a health coach at Google. It was like a benefit. And she's like, you got high cholesterol, eat oatmeal. And I was eating steel cut oats for a long time organic. But then I thought that eggs were healthy.

I thought that eggs were getting a bad rap. I mean, it's like everyone's saying different things. Like on Instagram, it's like this one doctor guy saying, oh, eggs, you got to eat eggs. So it's like it's just confusing. So are eggs not healthy? Yeah. So this is a hotly debated topic. And what I go to is.

I ate the standard American diet for about 20 to 30 years. So I did not grow up vegan or vegetarian or anything like that. I love chicken nuggets. When I was in college, I ate raw noodles and hot dogs. My parents grew a little garden and I really enjoyed that. But aside from like salads being on the table, I

I never add more than half of my plate, be vegetables. It is hard to decipher the media and what they talk about nutrition. But I go back to the reason there is confusion is because people like to hear good things about bad habits. And

If you are a reporter and you yourself eat a certain way, then you're going to lean to reporting on that certain way. It's the same thing as a lot of nutritional doctors, plant-based doctors have noted that GMO cigarettes, they used to be the cigarettes that doctors recommended. So

doctors recommending cigarettes, now they would never do that. They know that this causes lung cancer, so we should not do that. But back in the day, they were smoking themselves. And so therefore, they wanted to tell their patients that it was healthy. And so if they chose a certain type of cigarette, then that was better for them. So I put eggs into that same category. Yes, they are high in protein, but they are also high in cholesterol.

If you are eating eggs on a regular basis and you're not eating a high fiber diet that can help flush that out, then your cholesterol will continue to rise. So your cholesterol is twofold. It's impacted by number one, the cholesterol that you eat, and number two, the fat that you eat as well. So if you have high cholesterol, first thing to do is to cut out things with cholesterol to see if that comes down.

and to replace it with high fiber diet. And so when we talk about high fiber, the American recommendations right now are about 25 for women and between 30 and 35 grams a day for men. But most people are getting closer to 15 grams of fiber a day. You can do a really quick calculation just

Either if you have one of the fitness chapters, you can just type in what you eat in a day and see where am I at in relation to that. So on a plant-based diet, I get 50 grams of fiber a day. So twice the recommendation. And sometimes I'll get closer to 75. Now, there are some people that even with removing all cholesterol from their diet,

and going for a low-fat diet, they will still have hyper high cholesterol. And this is called hypercholesterolemia. There is a few genes. So for those people, I would suggest to go through the diet, do it properly for at least a month, if not

two to three months. And then you can get the genetic testing done if you still have high cholesterol. And if you come up with one of these genes, then you take the fat and then you take the medication for it. But if we're not addressing what's on our plate, and I knew even professors that claimed that cholesterol was all inherited. And then I asked them what they eat and they said 10 eggs a week. And I'm like,

If you're not removing that, then you're not going to find out if it's the diet or if it's the genetics. So cholesterol is going to be in dairy. It's going to be in meat. It's going to be in eggs. So if you are really serious about lowering your cholesterol, you have these genetic markers that

it should be impacted by your diet. So your diet changes help to flush that out. And lowering cholesterol, like a cup of oats a day or even more than that, besides oatmeal actually has a specific compound that can bind to the cholesterol and it pulls it out of the cycle. So your body's really good at conserving it. And the oatmeal says no, and it takes out a certain percentage

But we'll lower it over time as long as you're not adding more into the mix. That's what I was told before. And then I did that. And then I saw some nonsense on Instagram. I mean, this sounds ridiculous, but I feel like this is I'm not the only one that is seeing this stuff. OK, that's interesting. All right. Back on oats.

All right. Yeah. Oats, flaxseed, strawberry, banana, blueberry. That OK? Yeah. Yeah, that's great. All right. I was enjoying that. I loved it. It was great. And then I was like, no, I got to eat more. And there's a really interesting thing with protein. So in in the U.S.,

There is no one who is not calorie deficient. So we say 2000 calories is like the standard. So if you're working out, maybe it's 2400, 2600, something like that. But if you're meeting your calorie needs, it doesn't matter what you're eating. You're going to be meeting your minimum protein needs because all foods have protein. If plants didn't have protein, they would die.

So that is something to think about. And now if you're looking at it for a health perspective, the World Health Organization, WHO, they say that 10% of your calories should be protein. 2,000 calories, then 200 calories of that should come from protein.

If you're an Olympic athlete, then you can go up to double of that. But most of us are not Olympic athletes. I wouldn't put myself in that category.

Yeah. If you are concerned, honestly, about your protein intake, you can go and you can get your blood work done. So you can ask for, I believe it's a full metabolic channel and it will tell you the circulating protein throughout your blood and your doctor will be able to tell you like, is this low? It'll be flagged as low or flagged as high. Usually it doesn't flag as high, but

That would mean that you need more protein. But if you don't have that scientific evidence for your specific scenario, then you probably aren't needing to be obsessed with protein because you don't really have any reason to think so. Yeah. So this whole thing about eating one gram of protein per your weight probably over too much. Yeah.

Yeah, so actually the one gram of protein per weight was based on kilograms. So if you know anything about weight... So it's double, more than double. It's double. It was people that...

didn't really understand the concept. So we're just like, oh, it's a one-to-one, right? No, but like, so if you're taking your body into kilograms, then that's about half of what your regular weight is. So if you're saying one gram of protein per one gram of body weight, then you have just doubled what someone in the UK would do based on their body weight kilograms. Yeah, especially if you're worried about heart disease, cancer,

High protein diets are not good for cancer. When you're going through treatments, I actually talked to a naturopathic oncologist about this to find out. He said that for cancer treatments, as your body is breaking down, you need a 10% increase.

So if I'm eating 70 grams of protein, normally 77 grams would help me to repair from the damage that I was undergoing. Very informative. I told you I know nothing about this and it turns out less than nothing. I have wrong information. Be careful what you learn on Instagram, y'all. Let's switch gears now into what I call the mindful fire final four. Are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready.

All right. So the first question is about envisioning. I'm curious, as you look out three to five years, I'm curious as to what your big vision is for your life and what you're creating. What I'm envisioning for the future is my brand Cancer Free Haven, just really providing this much needed information. So you say, you know, you got to be careful what you find on Instagram. There are good sources on there. So I'm not going to say

that nothing there is valuable, but it's all about like meeting people where they are. So I've chosen to go onto Instagram for Cancer Free Haven and just to provide this

crucial content, this information. I don't want to be the one deciding for people. If you like to eat a little bit of meat every now and then, then I am not going to tell you not to. The same thing with cancer-free haven. If you want to do a traditional treatment pass, I'm not going to tell you not to. I just want you to be informed and empowered to make your own decisions to know that

you are getting the real research, the real information that you can then decide on your own what you want to do with that. So with Cancer-Free Haven, I'm building this course that I'm getting ready to launch for new breast cancer survivors. And I see in the future with this making a membership where I can provide information to people who haven't had cancer yet, to current survivors and just

going through all these diet and lifestyle things, mindfulness, mindset approaches, physical activity, and just creating this really supportive network for men and women who have cancer in their mind somewhere that they're thinking about cancer and to really get rid of that worry, that concern, and to instead empower women

everyone to know that they're doing what they can. So that is my vision is to maybe step back from my research and to be full into this. But I can even see a potential where I do a little bit of both. It's great to learn new things and then be able to implement them. So I would ideally like to transition back to cancer research.

and maybe even help with breast cancer research. I think that would be really fascinating. And I've already, with the power of invading, gotten this far with Cancer-Free Haven. Just dreaming about what I could do and seeing it come into reality is really amazing. That's wonderful. I love that. And yeah, I love the vision of kind of

The synergy between going and doing cancer research, which was what you wanted to do originally and we're doing and how those two things will help each other. I always love that, you know, where it can be like an accelerant to the impact that you're having. All right. The second question is, what piece of advice would you give to someone early on their path to financial independence?

Yeah. So early on, it is an amazing time. You're so excited about what am I going to do? When am I going to get there? And you're really motivated. So what I want to say if you're early on your path to fire is to build that opportunity fund. Prioritize your 401k, all the things

contribution, but then also start up this opportunity fund. Whether you're just putting $100 of paycheck in there or more, this can be something that can build. And so when you see those opportunities like

I want to start my new business, but I need a couple hundred dollars so I can buy some technology or, oh, there's an opportunity to go see my friends that are in this other country and I haven't seen them in a long time. Then you can take that money and know that you're not taking away from your future self, but that you're actually enriching your current situation. And that will make the task to fire you

much more enjoyable, that you can enjoy the journey and just appreciate the memories that you're going to make now. Because when you're retired, you're going to look back and say, I'm really glad that I went out and I did that thing.

Love that. And yeah, I think a lot of what you're talking about here really resonates with the book, really aligns with the book Die With Zero. Have you read that? Yeah, it's a very empowering book that you don't want to just sit on a big pile of money. Your goal is to earn only what you need for your lifetime.

Exactly. And to invest in creating memories. And he talks about memory dividends later on. And it's a really, really powerful book. And I recommend people check that out. All right. The third question is, what piece of advice would you give to someone getting started with meditation and or mindfulness? There's no wrong way to do it. So when I first started trying to be mindful, I was like, oh, I must stay in quiet and ohm.

And then I realized that was not going to work for me. So I do more walking meditation. So I'll listen to some music or a podcast, but I'll just get out on a walk by myself. And I allow that to be the time where I'm really envisioning my future. Well, I'm listening to a podcast about businesses and I'm getting excited that, oh, I could do this. So I think just

Taking it in any form that comes to you. For me, another time is like waking up in the middle of the night when you can't sleep and just journaling then. So if you're up anyways, you can just sit there and panic.

Or you can let your mind release all those thoughts that you had. It may not work right away, but I think just allowing you to have that time to say, okay, I'm up. What am I going to do now? And I actually wrote most of my book that I'm working on at 2 a.m. because of that. Yeah. There you go. I love that. All

All right, DeAndra, the last question is, how can people connect with you online, learn more about all the things that you're working on and get in touch with you? Thank you. There are two different places that you can find us online. So the first one is thatscientuple.com. So we write blog articles on there and it's not quite as active, but there are some good information on there. And we have nutrition section. We have

We have Sineutal and then we have more mindset and mindfulness there as well. So if you're interested in eating healthier, we do have a free resource on that sciencecouple.com that is the Eat for Health reminder. So if you drop us your email, then we'll send you a copy of that. And then that'll give you the seven different things that you can do in a day for your health.

And then if you're interested in my other business that I have, my other brand, it's Cancer Free Haven. So if you just go to Instagram, you can search for it, hashtag Cancer Free Haven. And that is my resource for cancer survivors, caregivers, and then also pre-vivors. So if you don't have cancer, but

but you have a family history and you want to learn more about that, then you can go head on over there. And I'll have my new course, Thrive from the Start for Breast Cancer Survivors that will be coming out in March of 2024. So those are some great resources. I also, for breast cancer survivors and cancer survivors, have a Circles of Control free resource, which really talks about

the things that you can influence, the things that you can't and how to know the difference between the two. So that's a really great, mindful resource that I have there. Love that. And that's on the Instagram or on the website?

Yeah, yeah. So if you go to the Instagram and just shoot me a DM, then I can send that to you. It's also on our website, cancerfreehaven.com. Wonderful. Thank you so much for being here. I've loved our conversation. We talked about everything from enjoying the journey to what I should be eating for breakfast. And I know people are going to get a lot out of it. So thank you for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me.

Thanks for joining me on today's episode of the Mindful Fire podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, I invite you to hit subscribe wherever you're listening to this. This is a great way to get in touch with me.

This just lets the platforms know you're getting value from the episodes and you want to be here when I release additional content. If you're ready to start your mindful fire journey, go to mindfulfire.org slash start and download my free envisioning guide. In just 10 minutes, this guide will help you craft a clear and inspiring vision for your life. Again, you can download it for free at mindfulfire.org slash start. Thanks again, and I'll catch you next time on the Mindful Fire Podcast.

♪