EP 589: Military Logistics Lessons for Modern Supply Chains
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The New Warehouse podcast hosted by Kevin Lawton is your source for insights and ideas from the distribution, transportation, and logistics industry. A new episode every Monday morning brings you the latest from industry experts and thought leaders. And now, here's Kevin.

Hey, it's Kevin Lawton with the New Warehouse Podcast, bringing you a new episode today. And on today's episode, I am going to be joined by Ravindra Pandey, who is a retired Lieutenant Colonel from the Indian Army.

And he's also a recent MBA graduate in 2024. So congratulations to him. But we're going to dive into a little bit of what does logistics and warehousing and supply chain look like on the military side and specifically in the Indian military. We're also going to talk to him a little bit about what he thinks is going on from his perspective in the industry and also a little bit too on the India industry as well specifically. So,

Robbie, welcome to the show. How are you? Good. Thank you so much for a great introduction. I'm doing well and I hope the same for you. Yeah, definitely, definitely. And excited to get you on here and definitely excited

interested to talk about this because it's something that we haven't quite touched on but I think it's important to talk about you know how logistics is involved in the military aspect because that's essentially where logistics kind of was born right was out of the military so very interested to dive into this with you but why don't we kick it off tell us a little bit about your background and how you kind of ended up in in the supply chain side of things.

Right, so I mean that was, I joined military in sometime in 2001, immediately after I completed my Bachelor of Science and I graduated and by the time I completed my studies, I was already through for the military to become an officer. So January 2001, I joined and then after we had like formal rigorous training of 18 months,

in Indian Military Academy and I got commissioned into infantry regiment of Indian Army.

So last 21 years thereafter, I moved to multiple locations within and outside India and looking after the domains of operations, supply chain, logistics, strategy planning. So from the military perspective, generally, you don't just focus on one area. It's a very widespread domain you have to look after. And as an infantry officer, as a leader, you have the responsibility of

for looking after your troops so there's hr aspects then their logistic aspects and then you have to also plan your battle so so everything is involved in this so during these years then i also work for united nations in sudan uh in 2009 10 for a year plus that was when the civil war broke up broke out there and a lot of disturbances when the union stepped in

So I had got deputed there for a year plus. And then I also worked for DRDO, which is Defence Research Development Organisation, a premier organisation in India for hardware development and manufacturing. So I was with them for more than three years. My relation continued even after that, but then physically I was there with them for almost three years plus.

then during these i also did a lot of trainings and logistics and supply chain because of the goals which i handled and then i did post graduate diploma in my pgdm in hr and operations management from civil university uh senior officers in india and then i after my retirement i came here to boston and joined the halt international business school for mba and graduated last year in august so

I got into supply chain quite early in my service because of the role I was in. And there's a very interesting story also, like even though like I was looking after the

management of my team which was around 200 people but then after one of the training program I was returning back to my base and I slipped on my bike I broke my collarbone got hospitalized and so when I came back after a couple of days since I could not take the active duty

So I was put into the logistics and supply chain to look after the complete aspect of that. And that is where I actually formally got introduced to supply chain as a responsibility and looking after a team of more than 1000 plus. So then wherein you are responsible for transportation, the logistics, the equipment, the ammunition, weapons, ensuring that

everything from your rear echelons they come to you and then you distribute them to the further ahead where the troops are deployed on on the in the battlefield so that's where that's how my formal introduction to supply chain started

And we started looking after the warehousing of everything, demanding and ensuring that everything, all the requirements are met, are well in time, because a lot of things are at stake. There is a saying that army marches on stomach, so you have to ensure that the logistics are taken care of, so that people are not left fending for themselves. Interesting there.

It's interesting. It sounds like you kind of literally fell into supply chain, right? Yeah. But then that was an eye-opener also. You don't realize how big the supply chain is. You really start handling it. Starting with small procurements and then going up to million-dollar deals and all those things.

and then you have to ensure the safeguarding, the safe transportation of all the purchases and then it has to be warehoused in a way that you don't lose anything because of mishandling. So a lot of things are at stake. Yeah. Money is involved. You realize only after that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, the supply chain, for those that

like are not familiar and then get into it. Like, I think, you know, they'll have that same reaction as you. It was like, wow, this is like touching very, very many things. Right. So, so tell us a little bit, I guess, from the military perspective, because, you know, if we work in,

Say we work for a company that ships mattresses. We're only dealing with mattresses. Maybe there's some accessories or something like that. But for the military, there's a lot of different things that need to be handled through the supply chain. So tell us kind of, I guess...

What is the military handling through the supply chain and what types of things are coming through those warehouses and what did you have to facilitate the movement and storage of? We'll be back after a quick break.

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So military is like a self-sufficient organization. So it has to ensure that you have everything needed to survive on Earth. So starting with the ration, water, these are the two primary things which cannot be substituted.

If you need ration to survive, you need to ensure that it is reaching the last man. Similarly, the transportation of water or the supply of water has to be. And military, as you're aware, it operates in very remote areas. So these two primary things have to be planned in a way. And these things go back to starting with the staple foods. In India, we generally have a more vegetarian kind of population.

So rice, lentils, they become the basic necessities. And then so these are the bulk purchases which is done for the complete like 1.4 million employees, the military strength which is there. And they are transported to various echelons, these storage echelons across the country.

depending on the locations where the troops are deployed, whether it is the north of India or the south of India. And so we have like kilometers and kilometers of warehouses for that.

They and they are differed divided into various zones and then from there as per the requirements or as per the you know the planning how much quantity is to be kept at the last man how much quantity is to be kept in the various stages backward. So this the supply chain the transportation plan flows in that way.

So the trucks, suppose the transportation is both by trains as well as trucks. So the truck trains carry the bulk of the load till where the load, the real head is there and thereafter trucks take on. And also like because of the trains take more time because of the priority at the national level, there are passenger trains running on the same track. Then there are other, you know, the industrial things which are also moving across.

So the transportation by train takes more time than transportation by trucks. So that's why it's like multiple channels which is used. So we do transportation by trucks also and also by the train. Trucks, we know that will take, say, 10 days to reach the destination. Trains will take, say, 30 days. So we plan accordingly based on the requirements at the specific locations and

So from the base logistic nodes, they have stepped forward to the regional logistic. There, again, the storage and handling is done. Now, and then depending on the requirements in the forward area, they further move ahead. Then most of the transportation is done in trucks. It can be military trucks thereafter, or it can be civil trucks.

So both are used depending on the situations and requirements. If there's an emergency requirement, then of course the military trucks are used for the transportation because then they go straight to the base where it is needed. If it is civil trucks, then they can't go beyond a certain limit. So then again, transshipment has to be done at some point.

So just to avoid that for the emergency movements, we use military trucks which reach the last location and the civil trucks, they come to the nearest warehouse where they can be stored for whatever duration is required. So it's a humongous network which is working around the clock.

to ensure that these rations and all these items. Similarly, then it comes to the other equipments like weapons, their ammunitions, which is again the bulk of the transportation and storage. Then we have the logistics, like maintenance equipments for the trucks which we use, or the weapons maintenance equipments.

So all these items also has to be staged forward almost in a similar way. So every, the basic structure is same. It's only that the use is maybe or the equipment may be different. So even the like weapons are again, like they also move in a similar kind of system, the network and only they are more difficult in the sense that

you can't just show off weapon while carrying them. So you need to ensure that adequate steps are taken, that people are not aware that the weapons are moving.

So it has to, those movements are a little secretive only very specific teams are handling those and which is not known to the rest of the echelons on the way. So it is only, it's only in the, when it reaches a particular location, then when the people there come to know, okay, the, you know, the weapon and the nations have come from the previous state. So of course the leadership will always be aware.

about such movements, but not everybody. It's need to know basis, basically. Then the equipments is bedding. You have more equipments like, you know, individually kits, et cetera. So those...

have another cycle of basically transportation but then the basic structure again what I said earlier remains the same. It's only the importance and how much necessity is there of handling those, how much criticality is there to handle those. Interesting, yeah. It's such a wide range of items and different

different things of how you have to handle them and things like that. I mean, it's very interesting there. I didn't think about, you know, I realized, you know, obviously you would have to move some type of ammunition and weapons and things like that. But I didn't think about, you know, the complexity there in terms of, you know, having to keep some of those movements secret, right? I guess because, you know, you're at risk of, you know, a bad actor wanting to

hijack one of those trucks or something right so very interesting there would you say like out of all of the things that you're responsible for or that the the military has to to move i mean is that the the most challenging part of it or is there something else that's more challenging

No, I mean, yeah, of course, weapons and equipments are definitely the most challenging because it requires extra care in handling those, plus the secrecy. But just imagine like even ration becomes also important because for say, for example, like there are say 100 people dependent on some ration which is to come up. Now if it doesn't reach, how are we going to survive?

in those remote areas where nothing is growing, you know. You are sitting at a high altitude which is like 21,000 feet. It's only ice around. How will you survive without ration? Yeah.

so it becomes critical as you keep moving ahead so everything become is critical in this only thing is that if a russian goes into somebody's hand we may lose we may have to think of alternate but we are not worried that something bad will happen after that you know it cannot be used for something uh to terrorize the people around or something like that yeah but weapon animations

If somebody gets the hold of that, then the situation changes. The complexity changes. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I can see that balance there between, you know, I guess the most important, right, is the, you know, the rations there, it sounds like. And then, you know, the most complexity probably around those munitions. So it's a very interesting look into that there. Tell us a little bit about, you know,

And what were there any like specific projects that happened that, you know, stand out to you and, you know, was like a real learning moment for you or, you know, made you realize like we need to do this a different way or, you know, is there anything that stands out to you in your your career there in the military that's like of note?

I mean, there are a couple of them. And to start with, like, I would like to say that Indian military is huge. It's the second largest in the world. So any process which we have is generally manual process.

There's a long way to go and become digitized. So related to that, like when I went to DRDO, which is supposed to be technically more, you know, savvy, they should be ahead of everybody else. But when I reached there, I was handling this whole operations and supply chain over there, including security. So I realized that they are also following the manual process.

sitting in the heart of a big town in the country and so their warehousing were in more bad shape than what I saw in military. Because the processes were manual, so the vendors when they supply some of the equipment which is needed for creating the product, so they were manually entered into the system, then manually segregated and

So what was happening was like if at the floor they needed certain equipment or the parts which is required for building equipment, when they give the requirements to these warehouses, it used to go for months. I mean, they used to take months to hand over those parts, which were critical. And that way the projects were getting delayed. So when I reached there, I realized that there has to be some way where we can improve this whole system.

And because coming from military, I had this secondary role of ensuring that all the military projects, you know, I'm there to look after and see that they are pushed and so that they are completed on time as there are larger requirements waiting for that. So when I do, I interacted with the

a lot of experts in this civil organizations and took their mind how i can improve on that and that the automation has to be done because like they did not have even the warehouse of management system so so i created a plan went to my boss who was the head of the organization and then i told him that

This is what is happening. Now this is what I'm looking at. If we automate, how it is going to help us speed up the process. So he liked the idea. Only thing is, he used to always say that his hands were full. There were so many things happening. There were 36 departments

which the organization had within a small store. And then everybody is in different direction. There are a lot of research work going on, there's a lot of development work going on. And then there is some manufacturing also simultaneously of the critical items.

when i came up with this idea he immediately gave me a go for that and then i got the budget allotted and went for because uh then i went for the vendors who create those kind of uh systems and we gave out this uh as a project leader right to call this responsibility and we

got the developed system, put it in place and started with automation first. And then we simultaneously started the segregation of the whole warehouse system. A warehouse which was like a dump, everything. So based on the inputs and the expertise I hired,

we started putting everything in a very formal way. The way you see in most of the warehouses here, whether I walk up to the Home Depot or even the Walmart or anywhere. Similar way we started segregating everything part by part, equipment by equipment, and we rebuilt the whole warehouse within that. It took almost like a year plus.

But then by the end of year plus, everything was in place and we were able to give training to the employees who were handling that. Now, the biggest challenge which came during that time was because they were been working in that for almost 20 years plus.

they were used to the manual because they were happy doing that manually so when you say why can't we speed up the thing no it takes so much they always had some excuse and they were not technology savvy also so i had to put some more employees on that who were young who were more talented who were you know go get a kind of thing so train them and then

put them together. I didn't remove these old employees because I knew that it becomes a sensitive union. It was a unionized environment also. But then I told them, you observe them, you work with them and you will realize how it has made your life so easy after

And after a couple of days, when they themselves got used to this, they were really happy because then they were getting more free time. Nobody was harping on them that why you're taking so much of time, you know, getting my order and all those things. So they were happy also. And quickly things started moving. So something which used to take a month for them to fulfill, started happening within a week.

And even the vendors when we like introduce those RFID scanning quantity. So the moment the vendors used to supply the equipment, you just scan and we know that where it has to go. And immediately it is segregated and put on those shelves.

And similarly with the demands, whichever demands are coming, they now exactly knew in the system on which rack, where is this part. So that picking, packing and all those things, it's speeded up. And the time I spent there, like three years plus, the same model then was copied to other 52 locations which the D-Idea had. So it became a widespread project.

And the second thing which this same thing which I then did for the military in army, you know, when I came back after that to military and I realized that because we had our own internal WMS system. Okay. So which were old, slow and required more manual feeding and all. So I plugged in the RFID scanning system.

got the barcoding, those machines installed, it speeded up the thing. Slowly, slowly, even same thing I did wherever I went in military thereafter. That helped me because centrally doing the same thing for the complete organization is really a herculean task in India because of the widespread distribution. But in pockets, it is now being implemented and things are improving.

Very interesting there. And I think that, I guess it's interesting because, you know, you think about, you know, military organizations, right? You think about, you know, organization and like, you know, precision and things like that. So to hear like, you know, on the back end, like some of these operations were, you know, as you said, a bunch of stuff just like dumped in a building basically is very interesting to hear, but it's great to hear how you were able to

put that together and figure out a way to modernize the operations and bring in some automation and a WMS to be able to take it to the next level and get it to where it needed to be. So I'm curious, I mean, when you look at that, I mean, how does that compare to... Because I think there's a lot of discussion around the world about...

you know, how are fulfillment operations progressing and things like that. So, I mean, what does, you know, aside from the military itself, I mean, in India, what does like the warehousing and fulfillment market or industry look like? So, you know, India has been growing rapidly over the years and the focus of manufacturing industry

If you look at globally, India has come up as a manufacturing country. And so it requires a lot of warehousing, transportation and handling of these equipment. And it becomes critical for the companies who are doing this manufacturing to ensure that whatever they are producing are also reaching the customer or the client for whom they are doing.

So there is a trend, like upward trend for the growth of e-commerce in India and omni-channel retails, which are booming like anything because of the population, which is there of 120 billion people. It's a lot of people. So is the requirement, you know. And interestingly, like pre-COVID, there was more of store shopping.

Even I'd prefer going to store and buy things. But during COVID, everything shifted to e-commerce. So even the poorest of the few person prefers buying it through online, going to Amazon website or any other retail business and buying it online. So that has increased the requirement of having the system in place within country of e-commerce.

Basically, starting from the warehousing till the last mile delivery. So there is a network of people who are working on it. There's a lot of emphasis is given because at the end of the customer, I would need the product in the way I'm looking at. If it is not up to the mark, I'm going to return it back.

So that's why it is important for that the organizations or the channels which are handling these that the there is a care taken while transporting these these items till the customer and secondly is like it has become more fast and efficient because of this what I need today I need it today and not tomorrow. Yeah. So that efficiency has come in and

It has helped in basically increasing the, I would say, the environment because lot of population is involved in handling of them apart from the systems which are there, whether it is warehousing or the tracking systems and all those things. Then, so there is companies which are adopting omnichannel strategies to handle this and then also

the managing both as online as well as the offline purchases. So you have to have that strategy where you're handling both adequately. Then there is a and because of these demands online, especially the e-commerce, there is an increase in requirement of the grade A warehousing and where the high quality large scale warehousing facilities, which have in fact come up very rapidly in India.

And in the urban or in the remote areas, because like when I went back last, I think I went back in April to India just for a couple of days, I saw so much of changes.

There are so many warehouses that have come up in particular areas. Yeah. And so there is a rapid development on these fronts. And because of that, you know, and there's a and also there's a clear focus of the companies or the organizations towards the automation and sustainability is another factor which even the government as a country we are pushing for and then compliance with the global standards.

which as a nation we have pledged to have a sustainable system in place. So every year the government is also coming up with the compliances which the industry has to put in place and that too at a very short time frame. It's not like, okay, in the next 10 years we have to achieve. I'll give you an example. Last year I heard the transport minister saying that in the next four or five years

most of the vehicles have to shift to EV. Four or five years, wow. But now he has given this mandate, but I can see there are a lot of challenges. But at least the industry is not all focused towards that and how to implement that. And similarly is the standards of these, what do you call it, the pollution standards.

they had given the mandate for the countries to adopt like the higher level of standard for the cars emission and which in like in one year they had to implement it

And the government forced the companies to comply with that. Ultimately, companies did. All the car manufacturing companies complied with all these kinds of compliances, the global compliances when it comes to the car emissions. So there is a lot of push by the government. And similarly, the people and the industry and the customers have also realized how it is important for having a sustainable system in place.

there's a lot of infrastructure which is being developed by the country by the government for example like Bharat Mala or Sagar Mala these are the projects which are improving the road and port network across India then we have like three PL and four PL companies which are gaining traction and which is allowing the businesses to outsource their logistics functions and so

And the last thing which I feel is the adoption of the technology. And there's a lot of emphasis is being done by the industry when it comes to AI, IoT, blockchain, and then robotics for the real-time tracking, warehouse automation. So there's a lot of adoption of technology in the system and that is going up day by day.

So I think in the time to come, I believe as a nation, a lot will be achieved by the country at par with what most of the European or even the US has. Challenges does remain because of the population. But I think with the right focus, the country will be able to achieve. Yeah, it's very interesting because I think that

You know, you mentioned the pandemic there and, you know, how people got more used to ordering things online, right? And, you know, wanting things quickly, you know, whereas we saw, you know, some of that here in the United States too, but then, you know, that quickly, right, where you're looking at, you know, two hour delivery or something like that kind of like was not, it kind of like lost the traction here in the United States. But I think in India, yeah,

It's interesting because because the population is so big, it makes that faster delivery, you know, a little more cost effective or, you know, a little more viable because of that, like huge population and population density in some some portions of the country, too. So it's pretty interesting there. Yeah. What do you think about that?

Yeah, I mean, another thing which I found like companies like Amazon, what they have done in India is a lot of small scale retailers in India, and who has who basically take care of the basic needs of people living around.

So they have got registered them to the Amazon. So during COVID, I had seen this shift because these are the people, shops who did not close because they are the ones who were fulfilling all the requirements

Interesting. So, and the last mile also became taken care of because the Amazon vehicles will come at a particular time, they just pick it up, and it has to just go another say maybe 500 or one kilometer and then deliver it to the person who has ordered it.

So there's a lot of shift and also in the planning as compared to the rest of the world, because in India, like the systems are a little different in the sense that a retail shop has everything what it needs to take care of the population around.

And now that person indirectly got associated to the e-commerce online channel and he's selling his stuff. So that speeds up the whole last minute. Yeah, interesting. And it's interesting how, you know, in different, you know, different parts of the world, like how different things get leveraged and, you know, how does that

you know, fit into what the existing infrastructure looked like and, you know, how does that evolve and, and, you know, still kind of like intertwine in some ways. So, so very interesting to talk to you here today, Ravi, and, and learn about, you know, some of the, the military side and, you know, some of the complexities there and, and some of the challenges and what you've been able to do there, uh, as well as, you know, what's going on in the, uh, Indian market too, as well. Um,

Now, you just recently graduated with your MBA. So congratulations to you. But I guess the question maybe is what's next or what are you currently working on?

So right now I'm working for a startup on AI for basically the startup is working on upgrading these systems and small restaurant business. So and also I'm working on my own idea of on supply chain sustainability.

So I'm working both because I believe that sustainability is key for supply chain in the longer run, especially when the effect on global, if you say, the warming is more because of the things associated with supply.

If we are able to have a plan or basically the visibility of the complete end-to-end supply chain, I think we will be able to more, we'll be in a better position to work on resolving some of the critical issues related to the pollution or maybe looking for the long-term sustainability. So with those thought processes, I'm also working on one of my startup ideas and

Still in the ideation stage, I'm just gathering the data and then planning to go forward with that. Side by side, I'm also working on a startup which is giving me also a different perspective on how the restaurant businesses, they need support with this automation and support what this current startup is doing.

Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. Well, we'll definitely be looking forward to learning more about that as it develops and seeing what you're up to there. So really appreciate you coming on the show today, Ravi, and it's a pleasure to speak with you. If people want to get in touch with you, learn more from you, what's the best way to do that? I think I'm available on LinkedIn and as Ravindra Pandey can be searched on. Also,

My email ID is pandey.robin.gmail.com. Anytime, anywhere, I'll do this. All right, great. And we'll definitely put that link to your LinkedIn in the show notes as well as at thenewwarehouse.com so people can easily find it. So Ravi, thank you once again for your time on the show today. You've been listening to The New Warehouse Podcast with Kevin Lawton. Subscribe and check us out online at thenewwarehouse.com.

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