“No Other Land”: The Collective Behind the Oscar-Nominated Documentary
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Again, that's Dell.com slash deals. Listener supported. WNYC Studios. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. In a week of astonishing headlines, maybe nothing was more astonishing than Donald Trump's proposal that the United States take over Gaza.

ethnically cleanse the region of Palestinians, permanently exiling a population already traumatized by war, and then turn the whole thing into what Trump calls the Riviera of the Middle East. Was this a serious proposal? It certainly put a smile on the face of Benjamin Netanyahu, who's not only intent on obliterating Hamas in Gaza, but at the same time, making Israel's control of the West Bank irreversible.

Even if Trump's proposal was merely part of his strategy of flooding the zone, the reality is no less troubling. And to understand what that reality is, particularly in the West Bank, there's a new documentary film that you should see called No Other Land. In one scene, Palestinians are protesting the demolition of their homes. They're walking down the road carrying balloons and banners.

But the protest is banned under Israeli law, and the army is at the ready alongside them with combat gear, rifles, and stun grenades. No Other Land is opening in just a handful of theaters around the country this week. It's been nominated as Best Documentary at the Academy Awards.

Two Palestinian and two Israeli filmmakers collaborated to make No Other Land, and I spoke over Zoom with two of them, Basil Adra, who lives in the West Bank, and Yuval Abraham, who lives in Jerusalem. Because so few people have seen this film, I'd like to begin, first of all, this is first and foremost begins with Basil's life.

Tell me where you were born and what was the impulse to make a film about your life and the circumstances of the people all around you. So I was born in a small community in the southern occupied West Bank, Masafriyata, in my little small village called Al-Tuwani.

I was born and raised there. My parents are like the other families in Asaf Riata, are farmers, like keep sheep and cultivate the land. And this is how the people lives in our area.

But today, their life, it's different, for sure, because we don't have access to majority of the land due to the settlements and military bases are built on our land for this past decade. So my parents all the time were like activists and were trying to change the reality that we are living in, as you saw a little bit of the stories in the No Other Land documentary.

Yeah.

And you wanted to make a film about your community, about the West Bank for a long time? So for me, it wasn't the idea from the beginning. I started like when I was a teenager to take a camera and document what's going on around me and to me, to my family, to the community that I live in, in order to have the evidence. And as well, I was like a bit kind of angry and want the world to know that we face what we face and we're living in these conditions and people should care about what

what's happening to us and it should not continue. This is what's happening in my village now. Soldiers are everywhere. And where were you sending this evidence? So some of them we used for social media

All of them are in our archive, on our hand. Some of the footage that we got helped different people in court cases as evidence and as a proof against the claims of the settler soldiers when they tried to lie about certain incidents. So we would have evidence that we filmed that incident to show to the judge or to the court.

This is what we do mainly to film what's going on and to move in the field with families, with school students during demolitions. And then Yuval and Rachel came to Masafriyat five years ago.

This is Yuval Abraham and Rachel Zor, who were Israeli and started coming to the West Bank. And then Yuval and Rachel kept coming to Masafi Riata almost weekly. And the relationship became stronger because we spent more time together and in the field, in the house. And then Hamdan actually had the idea and said, when we were sitting together, like, guys, let's make a movie documentary about all the footage that we have. We didn't have...

the experience in doing so, all of us, but we all agreed in the idea and we started this project like five years ago together and we released the movie February 2024, yeah. - It seems that as filmmakers, Basel, one of the great assets, advantages that you had, and I don't say this as a joke, is your ability to run really fast

with a camera away from dangerous situations. Can you talk about that a little bit? - Yeah, actually, you're right. I remember now in 2021, it was, to be honest, maybe the biggest settler physical attack against the community that ever I filmed in my life. I got a phone call and there was almost 60 to 80 masked settlers with guns,

They were like smashing windows and throwing rocks inside the houses at the people, at cars, and people were like literally fleeing from their homes to the valleys and to the fields and trying to run away from the settlers. I stood kind of less than 50 meters in front of about like 15 to 20 masked settlers. They were like smashing a home and two cars near it. One of the settlers saw that I'm filming and

And he called others and they started to run after me. I was in flip-flop even, not in good shoes to run. And for real, it was so scary. But I was faster and I made it and I escaped from them. I hate being with Bastien on the field because I'm much slower than him. So he always runs. I'm behind him. I also...

I smoke more, so I'm less in shape. And Yuval, when you started working on this film alongside Basel and the others, you came to this from what background? You're an Israeli citizen, am I correct? Jewish? I actually came to this through journalism, or to be, to even go even a step backwards. In a way, I came to this through the Arabic language, I think, because...

When I was younger, I studied Arabic. I grew up, you know, in quite a mainstream Israeli town, not meeting Palestinians, not knowing a lot about what is happening in the West Bank. And after I began studying Arabic, it really changed my life. It changed me emotionally.

politically, but I think also emotionally. My grandfather, who is a Jewish person born in Jerusalem and his family is originally from Yemen, he spoke fluent Palestinian Arabic. But then he

You know, after this family connection, I began also meeting Palestinians. First, Palestinians who are citizens of Israel. And gradually, I began going more and more into the West Bank. And I think the knowledge of Arabic and Hebrew is sort of what's made me a journalist. A lot of the footage that you gathered with your colleagues and a major focus of the film is on home demolitions conducted by Israeli military or Israeli crews. Could you explain what that's about, Yuval?

Wherever you look in the West Bank and also inside Israel, for example, in the Negev, you see Palestinian houses being bulldozed. You see Palestinian villages where they have no connection to water or electricity, and they are unable to obtain a permit. The Israeli military declines. It's almost 99% of Palestinian requests for building permits, according to data that the military has supplied to organizations like BIMCOM and others, Israeli human rights organizations that are researching this issue.

And when I looked in the Israeli media or I began talking to, you know, to Israeli friends from where I grew up or my family, the response I always got was, well, they're building illegally. This is a legal issue. They did not obtain a permit and it's illegal.

But when I began researching and looking at documents and looking at statistics, you very quickly realize that it's a political issue, that there is a systematic effort to prevent this acquisition of building permits. I think for me, what was most important and shocking when I first met Basel, this is like the first day that we met. I remember there was a house demolition happening in Basel's village yesterday.

and we ran to it. I remember the soldiers threw stun grenades and they kicked this person out of his house and destroyed the house. And there was so much violence there at that moment. I remember the children looking at it and the family then not sure what to do and where will they go and where will they sleep. And I felt it's very wrong that this is happening. And I felt a certain responsibility, I guess, to communicate that first and first most to Israelis. So I began writing mainly in Hebrew.

And something about that experience really drew me back to come back to Masafaryata and to basically witness this happening over and over again. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. More to come.

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Each morning, it's a new opportunity, a chance to start fresh. Up First from NPR makes each morning an opportunity to learn and to understand. Choose to join the world every morning with Up First, a podcast that hands you everything going on across the globe and down the street, all in 15 minutes or less. Start your day informed and anew with Up First by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. Yuval, what can an independent...

film like yours do, what kind of effect can it have?

I can tell you what I know for sure, that films have effects on individuals and they change the hearts of individuals. And the only reason why I know this for a fact is because it happens to me. Like when I was younger, I remember I watched a documentary called Five Broken Cameras, which was also nominated for an Oscar and was created by an Israeli-Palestinian team. And it really, really touched me. And it really made me question some of the beliefs I grew up with. Because what kind of narratives...

were you raised on about Palestine and Palestinians as you were growing up? I grew up 25 minutes away from Basel's village near the Be'er Sheva area, which is in the south of Israel. And I mean, I lived my life and, you know, you don't know or you don't see, or maybe you see, but you kind of tune out of the realities happening in the West Bank and what Basel's community has been going through. I would always hear about Palestinian teenagers in the West Bank,

throwing stones at Israeli soldiers or at Israeli settlers. And when you don't know anything about the context, when you imagine that they're just living normal lives like your lives, the explanation that you put on these acts of violence is always going to be they're doing that because they hate us, because they are evil. But do you extend that understanding to something like October 7th? No. Look, I do believe that...

and this is I'm not the only Israeli Israelis talk about this all the time that's part of the conditions which allowed for October 7th was an Israeli right-wing policy for decades that set to empower Hamas in Gaza we can more moderate Palestinians keep a separation between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank to prevent a Palestinian state I do believe that people retain moral agency so I think

horrible war crimes were committed on October 7th. Three people that I knew were killed on October 7th. Even people who are oppressed still have moral agency and, you know, in kidnapping children or massacring civilians is wrong. And the people who are committing that have

a moral responsibility. And I see this tendency both in the Palestinian side and also in the Israeli side to not assume responsibility for crimes or actions because the other side has committed the crimes. And looking at, you know, October 7th,

It's almost a year and a half since where, you know, if 38 Israeli children were killed on October 7th, each one of their deaths is a crime. We have now in Gaza 17,000 children, 10,000 children who are missing. And when you talk with Israelis about this, they have this mirror image of justification where they point to the crime of October 7th and say, well, this justifies everything that we have done since. Yuval, do you feel like a stranger in your own land politically because the

Polls would suggest, my interviews would suggest, the Israeli press would suggest that the way you look at the situation now is utterly alien to Israeli society. My views are a minority view in Israel. I don't mean a minority. I mean a vanishingly small minority, no?

You're right. Recently there was a vote in the Knesset about a statement where the Israeli Knesset said there will never be a Palestinian state. And there are 120 Knesset members, parliament members. The statement passed and only eight parliament members, I think that was the number eight or maybe it was nine, opposed out of 120. Most of the eight were Palestinian Israelis. There was only one Jewish Israeli parliament member who opposed that. So this is a pressing issue.

And it's very terrifying for me because I think that you are right. I mean, there is no discourse here locally that could lead to a political solution. And we are hungry for hope. Basel, there's a very powerful scene in the film that shows a peaceful protest against the destruction of your village and other villages. Can you describe how dangerous peaceful protests can be in the West Bank? It's not really legal to protest. Is that right?

No, under the military law, it's illegal. We can't have any protest against the occupation. It's very, very dangerous sometimes. It can be not just in Masafi Yatta. And all over the years, many Palestinians lost their lives protesting against the occupation on those kinds of protests. And our...

documentary. You can see the story of Haroun Abaram, a guy like our age who was shot in his neck by Israeli soldiers just because he tried to protest the soldiers taking the generator that his family used for electricity. And he was paralyzed for two years and then passed away due to his injury. Basil, you have been showing this film all around the world.

What has been the result of your touring this film? Yeah, around the world, we're very emotional, and a lot of them would cry and also stand up and greet us. And it's amazing, I think. We didn't thought, to be honest, when we were working on this movie, that we would get this amount of awards and be nominated for the Oscar, which is all important for the movie and the story itself. But on the other side, it's sad because...

We made this movie from a perspective of activism to try to save the community, to try to have political pressure and impact for the community itself. But unfortunately, all the reality today is changing the opposite side, which is to be more miserable and bad. The reality on the ground. Yes. One of the difficult things for a film like this, and look, I feel it sometimes too, is that you're

sometimes preaching to the converted you've all you're showing your film to people who already are inclined to agree with you or in your political camp and that to reach people that whose mind you want to change most profoundly yeah they're not turning it on they're not entering the theater they're not clicking on uh your film they're watching something else yeah

Well, I think this is why the Oscars help. Because, you know, when a film is nominated, then suddenly, and I see this now in Israeli society, we released the film now online in Israel and Palestine. And of course, it's challenging. But, you know, I'm beginning to read comments from Israelis who are not necessarily like me. As you said, they're not part of the, did you call it a dying minority? Or like, sorry, a smalling minority, which I hope changes. You know, because for me, I feel this is my main responsibility as,

as an Israeli, is to work with the Israeli society and to try to, I'm going to have a bunch of interviews on mainstream Israeli media and to try to show people, you know, the way in which I see the world and to try to convince them to come closer. I sometimes think that Israeli contact

with the West Bank, much less Gaza, is almost solely through the military. I was once writing a piece about Haaretz, and I was talking with the owner of Haaretz, Amos Shachan, and I asked him about what his experience of the West Bank had been. He said, I've never been there. I read about it in Haaretz. Wow. And that is the owner of the most left-wing paper in Israel. This is a key issue, David. If I look at

you know, the few years that we had leading to October 7th that had the protests against the judicial overhaul, against the weakening of the Israeli judicial system and the Supreme Court, which were policies that Netanyahu had tried to promote. Yeah.

You know, this was something that was led by, let's say, the Israeli center-left, the liberal community in Israel. Many of them live in Tel Aviv. And I would attend those protests because I thought they were important. But one word that was missing there, because people were chanting democracy and democracy, that was missing from the mainstream side of this protest was occupation, was Palestinians, was a political solution. And I think that for far too long,

The Israeli liberal side has sort of allowed, not only allowed, but had contributed for things that were happening in the occupied West Bank and in Gaza. And there is a contradiction here that we are seeing today. I mean, things are related. Many people on the left have warned for many, many years that, you know, what is happening to the Palestinians will eventually seep through into the Israeli society.

And of course, like the Israeli right is getting stronger. And then the oppression of Palestinians is getting bigger. And then Hamas is getting stronger. And then by attacking Israeli civilians, the Israeli right is good. But there is this loop that we are seeing where it's like a win-win for those who do not want a political solution. And I think it's really important to understand that.

It's not some binary thing. It's not like either the Palestinians win or the Israelis win. In a sense, it's either we all win or we all lose. And I hope that the Israeli liberals, to get back to my previous point, will not continue to protect the occupation or apartheid. And we will try to work to have an alternative because we really need this. We need this like water, really, that there will be no other way forward if there is no political horizon.

Basel, for many, it's very hard to imagine how things can get any worse in Palestine, in Gaza, in West Bank, and in the political atmosphere of Israel as well. What do you hope that this film inspires in the people that take the time to see it? Well, we did this movie, again, from the perspective of activism. And for real, we want to change people's minds because many of the people that are going to watch this are somehow responsible.

Because this is their money, this is their government, this is their countries that's supporting this reality and supporting the ongoing occupation, even if in their words will not say it, but in their actions, this is what they do. And so we want these people to understand and to inspire them and to encourage them that they should...

take part in this, in any kind of action, small, big protest, pressure. How do you imagine the Academy Awards ceremony if you had that opportunity, very short opportunity before the music starts and they chase you off the stage? What would you like to say to the world in that brief time? We have 45 seconds.

And Basel needs to speak first, I think. But I think for me, if I will say something concrete about the current moment, I think for me, what is the most urgent thing is that all stages of the ceasefire will be implemented. And there's a very high risk. I think in the short term, the pressure should really be on moving and doing all the stages of the ceasefire agreement so we can get out of this current, you know, bloodbath that we are in and begin moving

hopefully working for a political solution. Basil Adra, Yuval Ibrahim, thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you. No Other Land opened in New York and it's coming to a few major cities this weekend. Also on the filmmaking team for No Other Land are Hamdan Balal and Rachel Zohr. The film has been nominated for Best Documentary at the Academy Awards through next month. I'm David Remnick. That's our show for today. Thanks for joining us. See you next time.

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