Hard Decisions Today Bring Freedom Tomorrow
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From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by my good friend, Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Ruth is going to kick us off in Salt Lake City. Ruth, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help today?

Well, I'm trying to figure out. I'm retired, and I'm going through my finances, and I'm trying to figure out whether I should have my children as beneficiaries or not since they ghosted me. Oh, wow. And they ghosted me like nine years ago, so it's been a long time. I've reached out a lot. No responses. What caused the ghost? I'm not really sure. I set a boundary with my youngest daughter, who is a heroin addict.

an addict and told her basically she can't use me anymore and I will support her in recovery and her healing and it ran from there it did

Wow. So how many other kids do you have? I have four, but my oldest child died. Okay. And they range, my living children range from 45 to 35. And none of them will talk to you? No. I'm sorry. I know that's heartbreaking. Devastating. It is. Yeah. How many?

Yeah, that's just, that's heartbreaking. And for whatever it's worth, I'm proud of you for putting up a boundary with one of your kids. Thank you. We don't ever talk, we don't talk about enough the other side of boundaries is that when we can put up a boundary to keep ourselves safe and

Kind of create the world we want to exist in. Other people can just walk away. And we don't talk about that enough. Boundaries looks good on Instagram, but man, there's a reality to it that can be heartbreaking. Really heartbreaking. And I do believe that the drug aspect is part of it because I think that if my kids were in my world...

They know that I would make sure their children were safe. And in my humble opinion, you can't be an active addict to be a very good parent. I think there's truth to that. I think that's fair. I also think it's cool. And they know that I would do something about that. Yeah. I mean, if you think that the kids, their kids are in danger now, I think just not only as a grandma, but as a citizen, you have a responsibility to make a phone call, right? Yes. Yes. But...

I think it's cruel to give somebody who's struggling with heroin a big inheritance because it's going to kill. I agree. It's going to kill. So how much money are we talking here? Well, it kind of depends. I'm separated and our home, you know, my neighbor sold our home for 1.2 million. So mine's probably 900,000. So I'm separated in that possibility of a divorce.

And let's say down the road, a possibility of six to eight hundred thousand. What about in retirement funds or anything? That's part of that. Yeah. So you're saying you would have six to eight hundred thousand to leave? Yes. OK. And you're saying, hey, the kids won't talk to me. What do I do with this money?

Yes, and I want to do right by God, and I want to be clear about this. I know, and I have eight grandkids, so my one child that died, they would get that child's inheritance. If you don't specify that in a will, then they don't. So I wanted to make sure that they would get that child's portion. Well, can you do something like, and I'm asking George this on your behalf, he's the expert here, but...

Could she open up 529s and fully fund them for all the grandkids? Absolutely. Which specifies that money is going to be used for education only. And if they choose to not go to school, they just go straight into the workforce and never need any sort of training, which is almost no job.

But if they want to go to college, they want to go to trade school, they want to go to nursing school, that can be used for that. But if not, it just can roll into a Roth with the kids down the line. That would probably be something I would look to do. If you want to honor your grandkids. Yeah, if you want to skip a generation and not punish the grandkids...

You know, the grandkids hopefully can be trusted with this. And especially if you leave it on a 529 where it's for a specific purpose that will also make you feel better about this, that the parents aren't going to just drain this thing down to zero and use it for whatever they want. Leave it in, you know, you'll need their social security numbers to open up that 529 for each of them. But that's a great way to sort of leave the inheritance, feel good about it without leaving it directly to the children. Yeah.

Right. How old are you, Ruth? I'm sorry? How old are you? 66. Why are you thinking about this right now?

My first husband died, so I know that that's real. I'm separated, so looking at a divorce. Okay. And I just want to be responsible and just do the right thing, you know? Yeah, good for you. But you also sound like you might need a lot of this money. Let's say you live to be 90. I might, yeah. I mean, you've got another 24 years to manage expense-wise. Are you still working? Yeah.

No, I was forced to retire early due to health things. I've got autoimmune and I've got arthritis stuff. I literally can't work. I would if I could, but I can't. And I've been responsible my whole life. So not, you know, don't do debt and insurance.

You know, careful, really careful. I was widowed young, and, you know, God took care of us, and we were never on welfare. You know, I just—I've been really careful. I just want to do the right thing. And not leaving my kids out of their inheritance isn't for revenge. I just want to do the right thing, you know? Yeah, and if there's no communication there, and, you know— There isn't, and I've tried. You could leave it to the kids that you trust with this, right?

even if they don't have communication with you, it's your money. You can do what you want. You can leave it all to a charity and have none of it go to family. It's your prerogative. You're the one who has to make peace with all this. Or you can leave it to a trusted, like an executor of your estate or executor of a trust who...

could have a written explanation of what you want done with the money. If my kids come and they prove that they're clean with six months of drug tests or whatever, then they get their inheritance or automatically this money's, this, this executor would fund 529 plans or, I mean, you could, you can, you can decide, um, if you think things are going to happen on the road, but there's also a chance you live another 25 or 30 years.

Yeah, and I could use it. You're going to need it. You're not going to use it. You're going to have to have it, right? Especially, you know. Both my grandmas lived to be 96. I hope I don't, but, you know, that's the reality of it as well. And I thought about that. What do you mean you hope you don't? You have a whole third left to go. You're like halfway through the third quarter. You can't quit the game now. Heaven sounds better. Heaven sounds better. I know, I know. But listen, can I tell you something? Yeah. Yeah.

There are mothers right now, and I know this because one out of four, 25% of the calls that come into my show are about estranged families. It's horrible. Somebody's cut off their parents, the parents have cut off their kids or whatever. Yeah. What an amazing resource you would be to a 45 or 50-year-old mom whose kids won't talk to her anymore.

Yeah. Or to a group of young parents, young dads, young moms whose parents are too busy YOLOing it up in their 70s and 60s and won't talk to them anymore. You can start a small group in your local community and provide 20 years of just life-giving wisdom and kindness. So don't cash out on me now. You're halfway through the third quarter. You got to play all the way to the end of the bell.

But yeah, George, this is her money, right? Yeah. Again, you have to make peace with it. So don't do anything that's going to leave you up at night going, oh, I shouldn't have done that. But get a will in place, work with an estate planning attorney, and get this done as soon as possible.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel here with Dr. John Deloney. And Lily is up next in San Diego, California. What's going on, Lily? How can we help today? Hi, thank you for taking my call. I'm a doctor.

My dad's car was impounded last October 2024. The car was not, they were charging more than the car was worth. Very beat up old car. We made the decision of not picking it up. And my dad was going at the moment,

He still kind of is through very difficult financial situation. He's 83, living only on Social Security. And now he received a letter from a lien enforcement saying that if he doesn't pay $3,000 because of accumulated fees, they will send them to collections.

And I don't know how to help him. I don't know what to do. I had this happen to me once. I sold my car to my little brother. And my brother, I mean him and his buddy, it was not a great car. And they just destroyed it. It was pretty hilarious. But they left it like in a field somewhere in nowhere, Texas. And then I got a call like five years later saying I owed $2,000 in storage fees or I could surrender the car. And on the phone, I just said, Merry Christmas. Y'all got yourselves a car. And I said,

and I hung up the phone. I bought it for half that back in the day. Can they just surrender the car? What was that again? I'm sorry? Often this impoundment fees, basically it's a storage fee, they'll exchange the fee for that car, the old beat-up car that he left there.

Yeah, yeah. Well, the thing is that they picked up the car from the street because my dad had it. It was parked for more, you know, when it's parked too long. Right, but where's that car now? They said they sold it. I guess they sold it. The company that picked it up already sold that vehicle. Okay, if they sold it, then there needs to be a...

They need to take – apply that sale price to the impound fees that they charge you. Yeah, they made some money. So that would reduce what he would owe. They can't just sell a car. Like you would – your dad would still have the title, wouldn't he?

Yeah, he does. I mean, he does. But I guess the tow truck company that took it, once it's not picked up, it goes into one of those, I'm trying to think of the name, where they just sell the vehicles, the auctioned vehicles that aren't picked up. Yes. So what was the car worth? Oh, my goodness. I mean, we were thinking it was worth maybe like $10.

500 bucks at the most it was very beat up I mean that's why when we got the when we were sent the papers that we were going to pay about 450 to just take the car out at that moment it just since my dad was already in a lot of debt it's like where do we pay that what you know he was already having to pay other things and it just got worse and worse and worse now with all the fees they're looking to charge you and threatening with collections

Yes. And your dad has zero dollars to his name now? Exactly. How much debt does he have? Right now, the thing, I just helped him finish off paying off the debt, but right now, because he lives in a condominium, they're doing special assessments, and it's a whole other story with that, with how much he's going to have to pay for that. Well, he can't afford that either.

Yeah, I don't know. You know, I know the Lord will provide somehow. I mean, right at the moment that when the car was impounded, he was owing about $6,000 for something else that I've been helping him kind of sort out his finances. What's your financial situation? Yeah.

Oh, my goodness. It's not as bad as my dad, but... Well, I don't think he's the one to compare your life to. I mean, I don't want you to fall into the same traps because you're busy trying to help dad, so now you're in a financial bind, and we continue this generational curse. Or you keep waiting for the Lord to provide, but y'all are burying your head in the sand.

Yeah, no, definitely. And I found you guys this year. So I'm really like getting, you know, to do my finances the way, you know, you guys are, you know, advised. Okay. But step one, step one of our plan is taking 100% ownership of the mess and not avoiding anything. So that might be that you call the impound place and we call this a stupid tax around here. We do say that with a smile on her face. We're not calling anybody stupid, but yeah,

You call them and say, I got $1,000. That's all I'm paying for this thing. My dad's on fixed income. He has nothing. They will do somersaults and backflips that they got anything from you and tell them you already sold my dad's car. We still have the title of it. You took the car. You sold it. So for the price that you got for it and here's $1,000, this is over. Send me this in writing and I will give you a cashier's check. Period.

Okay. And you might have to help him out there, but just get it done. And then the condo stuff, don't put your head in the sand on that because those fees are going to pile up on you too and get crazy. You're going to be in the same boat, except he's going to lose his house. So let's take that sucker head on. So you've got some homework to do. You've got to contact them and say, hey, I need the sale price breakdown proving that this car was sold for how much. I need a fee breakdown of what everything you're charging me is for after the sale of the car was removed from that. And then you need to dispute or negotiate the balance. Okay.

You're going to want to get a day breakdown, a 24-hour breakdown on how they arrived at this $3,000 number. They can't just make it up. And if they're charging you $70 a day or something stupid like that, then you dispute that.

Okay. Should I go directly to the letter that I received from the lien enforcement or go to – I have the letter of the initial company that towed the vehicle? Yeah, I would trace it all the way back and get every piece of documentation you can from the start of this to where it is today and who's been contacting you and keep records of everything. Who you talk to, when you talk to them, what they said because these people will really try – I mean don't give them access to any bank accounts.

And don't make any promises. But if you guys can negotiate on a price in writing, say, hey, can we call this paid in full off the record if we pay this amount? This is all we have. And tell him he's broke. He's got collections all over the place. He's 83. He can't pay. You know, they got nothing to really go after here. And so they're just trying to roughhouse you into getting a little bit as much as they can. OK. Yeah, that makes sense. And Lily, I want you to hear me so clearly. This is for you and everybody listening.

Conflict deferred is conflict amplified. Yes. Avoiding any sort of conflict, dispute, I don't want to pick my car up, yada, it will come back to haunt you. That $400 already turned into $3,000. That's $3,000. And even if you get it down to $1,000, it's $1,000. Y'all could have just gone to pick up the car, paid $50 and set it on fire in a parking lot and it would have been cheaper than what y'all are doing now.

Yeah, same thing with the condo, same thing with his retirement, same thing with his insurance, everything he's got facing him. Conflict deferred is conflict amplified. So let's just head into these problems one after the other, after the other. He's lucky to have you as his daughter, by the way. No, thank you so much.

He's lucky to have you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I love hearing you guys. And I'm going to apply it to my finances for sure. Good. I don't want Lily's kids calling in saying, hey, my mom got her car impounded. You're going to break this generational curse. Hang on the phone. We're going to give you Financial Peace University. I'm going to hook you up. And I want you to watch all nine videos.

and begin to take control of your money. Sounds like your dad's going to need you by his side in that back half. Yeah, I can tell this guy's been through a lot, and he's just kind of in la-la land going, well, what are you going to do?

Yeah, the problem is people just rack up fees. Yeah, yeah. That idea that I'm just going to not deal with this. I'll deal with it later. Like the student loans, they don't go away. The car at the impound lot, the insurance premium you forgot to pay. Yesterday we talked to somebody, it lapsed two days and her husband died. Like this stuff just doesn't go away. We just got to continue to head into it and head into it and head into it. It's brutal. Absolutely brutal.

So sorry you're going through this, Lily. We're wishing you and your dad the best. Let's get real, folks. Healthy eating sounds good until your day gets really busy and suddenly you're gulping down your third frozen pizza of the week. That's why I love Field of Greens. It's a superfood powder. It gets me real fruits and veggies selected by doctors to help my heart, lungs, metabolism, and so much more.

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And between clickbait headlines and confusing data, it's tough to know what's actually going on in the housing market. So let's make these trends easy to understand. Median home prices went up slightly last month to about $430,000. And the

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Gentlemen, thanks for taking my call. Sure. Looking for some divine wisdom. That's John. You called the wrong show, brother. Oh, sorry about that. A little bit of a disagreement between the spouse and I. Yes, we'll solve it.

Okay. Well, Kim, I'm holding you to your word. So yesterday was our 25th anniversary. I really tried to get on the air yesterday, but couldn't get on. But as it regards our oldest dependent, Junior's a good kid. He's going to be a junior in college. He's also in flight training. He's following in my footsteps. I'm an airline pilot. He wants to do the same thing, but it's expensive. And I want him to have a piece of the pie. My parents had me pay for part of my education. I

I've been bankrolling it, cashing it as we go. We make good money. My wife, that's kind of our kicker. My wife thinks we make really good money and that she thinks he should start with a fresh coat of paint and no...

nothing holding him back. And I think he needs to pay for part of it, not right away, let him get his first job, maybe six months later, start a payment plan back to mom and pops for... Oh, so this went from, I want him to have skin in the game too. I want him to take out a personal loan unbeknownst to him. I want to be the bank of dad.

I want him to have a piece of it to where some ownership in it. Because college is one thing. He wants to be a pilot. Great. That's to the tune of about $80,000 on top of college to go through all of your flight training. What was the conversation like when he was heading off to college? Was it, hey, mom and dad, we've got it covered completely? Or...

He's got some scholarships. What was the understanding? Yeah, he gets a $15,000 scholarship. He's a smart kid. He was going to do engineering until his last semester of high school, and then he hated all of his engineering classes. And we're like, okay, so now what? So now we kind of scrambled. He's always shown an interest in aviation. So who's paying for college now? You said he's a junior? Yeah.

Yeah, he's a junior. We're paying for it. There's no loans. And that was the agreement. I want to know what was the agreement you handshook and said, hey, we've got this.

There was no agreement. There was, I want, we'll talk about this down the road. There was no amount set. But, you know, I think we need to have some kind of, some kind of, especially with adding the aviation. Because the aviation is on top of college. Yeah. Okay, but hold on. I feel like you're giving me two messages. Message number one, I want my son to have some skin in the game like I did. Because it made me appreciate the...

The scratch and clawing that is to be a new pilot and all those crummy shifts you're going to take. You took it more seriously in class because you're paying for it too. But then I hear you saying over and over –

Man, this is just really expensive. So have you, which is it? Do you want him to like have some skin in the game or did you already have, like you want to get him off the payroll and have this $80,000 go to a new truck? No, no, no. I'm talking, I'm talking some skin in the game, like, like $20,000 payable, like two, 300 bucks a month. I think when, after he gets his first job, he'll start out making probably 80, $90,000 a year as a, as a new airline pilot. I'm not talking, I don't want him to pay $80,000 and then pay for his college. I want,

just some ownership like I did. I was about $25,000. I paid back to my dad. It felt kind of good. I don't love the idea of you becoming the bank of dad. I do love the idea of a kid having skin in the game.

I love the idea of maybe for the rest of this summer and for the summer after his junior year and the summer after his senior year before flight school that he works for the business of mom and dad's house. And he earns – you all keep an hour log. You all figure that out. I don't love him starting the world indebted to you financially.

You came along in a season when jobs were available, when technology wasn't threatening everybody's everything. I hate the idea that he would be 25 or 20 grand in the hole to dad. And then there being a hiring freeze or an economic issue or something. And now y'all can't even be in the same room together. Or every time he takes a girl on a date, you're like, where's my money? Like, man. It changes the whole relationship. Just haunting. I want him to call you as a friend, as an adult, to catch up and talk flight school and how things are going. Not, hey, man, where's my money?

Yeah. You missed last month's payment. Where's it at? And so I just, I don't love the idea of this. I like the idea of having skin in the game, but can he work part-time while he's in training school to where you agree a set amount he pays for out of pocket?

That would be a better scenario. He's working in the summer at home now. He does work some during school. He has a lot of fun. I know that. During school. Where is this coming from on your wife's side? I'm counting on you guys to back me up. Let me tell you, dude. I bought a car for $1,000 when I was in high school. And I put $100 down.

And I thought my dad covered the other $900. He thought I paid it. And that $900, dude, drove a wedge between us. I mean, it had a ripple effect that was way beyond $900.

Because I thought he and he thought I, and then it became this embarrassment. And then, I mean, it just became a thing on thing on thing. The guy then who sold me the car was a great man who passed away. The whole thing got sideways. It was over $900. And this is way beyond that. And it worked out for you and your dad. And George and I would not have a job if every one of these things worked out.

And so I can't in good conscience tell you to become a bank for your son and have him graduate saying, I owe you or you owe me. This makes me just sick to my stomach, man. But I do love the idea of skipping the game. He doesn't sound entitled at all. You're telling me he's a real hard worker. He's got scholarships. He's a real smart kid. Nothing about this feels like he's just using you guys as a bankroll. No, I mean, he's had a fairly easy past, right?

Would he say that? Or is it easy compared to what you went through? Back in my day, I had to walk up hill naked in the snow. I think he would agree. He's a pretty humble kid. He has a nice little Toyota he gets to drive. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it. Are you guys scared that you created too much privilege for him, in a sense?

I kind of am, yeah. My wife and I have also disagreed on that. Okay. How does she feel? If she was on the line right now, what would she say to butt in here? She would agree more with you, which I was not counting on. Not going how I needed it to. I mean, both George and I have accounts for our kids to go to college. I want to support them. And also, I'm going to have an expectation that I'm going to preset with my kids that they work, they maintain a GPA, and purchase new pear trees. So all that stuff's good. Yeah.

And Dave Ramsey did the same. He said, I will cover you to go to an in-state school for four years. Anything outside of that or beyond that is on you. And so I think you can set the boundary line, but I also wouldn't go, hey, you're going to owe me 50 grand if you do this either. That also feels crazy. Can I throw another option out there at you? Absolutely. And that way you can say you didn't totally lose. You can tell your wife, oh, I have a third option.

And that way we can all say face together because I want to be on your side too, man. I'm going to tell her I called. Ask your son who is a junior, right? He's a junior now. He's going to be a junior. He's a rising junior. Okay. I want you to take him out to breakfast this Saturday and I want you to say, hey, here's the reality of flight school. It's $80,000. My dad and I had an agreement that I borrowed 25 grand from him and he covered the rest of it. I don't want to be your bank. I always want to be your dad.

But you have to have some skin in the game. And so your responsibility over the next two weeks is to write me a proposal for what skin in the game is going to mean for you. Okay. And put the onus on him. And that way, when things get dicey three or four years from now, when he's exhausted and doesn't want to do X, Y, or Z, or whatever y'all agreed on, you can say, hey, you wrote the terms to this and I agreed to them.

And so you're shifting the skin of the game onto him. What is he what's the investment in this thing worth for him? And let him come back to you on that. And it has a way of leveling the playing field when you're talking to an adult, a rising adult child. So give that a shot. I like that plan. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies.

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The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YRefi. Defaulted private student loans can feel like a wall you'll never be able to climb, but YRefi may be able to help you get over it. They'll work with you to explore a payment plan tailored to your situation. So go to YRefi.com slash Ramsey to learn more. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Owen in Washington.

Owen writes, my partner and I have been together for two years and have lived together for one. We frequently talk about getting married. I've brought up opening a joint house account to split expenses for housing and possibly utilizing it as a savings vehicle. But this idea was shot down quickly. All right. You're dating well, Owen. We know how much the other earns, but that's about it.

When is it time to share our financial situations? And when is it a flag if one partner doesn't want to share at all? If marriage is the path we're on, then this seems like a necessary first step. Yes, you should share financial situation before you decide to become roommates. Yeah, they're on step five. So he's talking about first step. I'm like, you've already, we blew past that long ago. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I would say it's the huge, humongous, gigantic, yeah,

Calling all cars red flag if you're considering a long-term relationship with somebody, you're considering moving in with somebody, which I don't recommend for multiple reasons, or if you're choosing to marry somebody and they won't talk to you about their financial situation. Yeah, huge, giant red flag. And trying to get cute about it and being like, well, let's create a super house fund that might be like part this, part savings account, part utility. No, because then you're going to be like you talk about like,

Venmoing your spouse. Oh, gosh. Like, hey, I got Arby's last night for $11, so just Venmo me. Well, I got coffee, so it's only $2.38. Like, gosh, dude. Just keeping score like that is exhausting. Oh, my gosh, dude. That's not a marriage. That will destroy the relationship. Back in August, I took out the trash, so you have to. Exactly. Jeez. So it'll never end. Jeez.

When is the time to talk about this and share more? I mean, it starts with values and principles before it goes into exact numbers.

And currently, unless you're heading towards marriage and heading towards engagement, there's no reason to dig into someone's financial situation unless they're calling this show. So I think they're – the reason they're shooting this down is because you're coming on a little strong here with your business proposal of how we're going to run this household without really any further indication this relationship is moving forward.

And so that's the worrisome part. But I would say as you're heading into engagement would be the time to get into specifics of, hey, before we move forward, like I got another financial picture. Are we on the same page? Do you have debt? Are we on track to pay it off in our lifetime? What are our financial goals as we build wealth together? But I feel like you guys have made a mess of this. So you got to untangle this knot first.

John, any suggestions on what this next conversation needs to be? Well, we joke on the show about playing house.

And when people move in together, even though all the data suggests otherwise, there's this idea that we're going to move in together and we're going to kind of like practice. That will create intimacy and further the relationship. Well, not even that. We're going to practice marriage and see if we're compatible. And what anyone who's been married more than five seconds will tell you is every marriage goes through seasons where we would not be together except we're married. And we have to figure this out. We're anchored to the same boat and we're going to figure this thing out.

And so this idea that we're practicing for something beyond just dating, it doesn't bear out in the data, right? You'd think that people who live together, their marriages are better. It's not, right? They end up not being. So when we say play house,

Really seriously, that's what's happening. We're pretending we have a long-term relationship or we're practicing for something. But it doesn't work that way. And so what I would say is to back all the way out. And it sounds like I'm just reading between the lines here. And I'm speculating a lot. Obviously, one of you is probably moving in because they like the benefits, the roommate with benefits benefits.

of the intimacy benefits, the split cost benefits, and one of you was practicing for marriage. And so I think this is one of those, let's swipe an arm across the table, clear the deck and say, where are we? Or as the kids say, yeah.

DTR, define the relationship. Way to go, John. You're seven years later. That's awesome. One of my students one time was like, yeah, we're having a DTR tonight. And I was like, I don't know what that means. So it was good. Yeah, it was a long time ago. They probably moved on to new things now, but...

I think it's still a good term. But you'll have to decide, what are we doing? What are we doing? But there's not a certain, well, you've been dating a year. Now's the time to have the debt talk. It doesn't work like that. And also, don't be a weird, rancid person who's like, hi, my name is so-and-so. My net worth is this. How much debt do you have? Don't be that weirdo either. Do you want to see my budget? Exactly. Whoa. When do you see my? Too soon. Yeah, too soon. Well, good luck, Owen. I hope you can salvage this and get them to open up and move forward in a healthier way.

Okay, off to the phones we go. Kirsten is in Atlanta up next. What's going on? Hi, it's actually Kirsten up there. Kirsten? I have a question. Yes. Okay, good. How do I go about paying some credit card debt? I have roughly about $600 total of credit card debt. Yeah, hold on one second, Kirsten. Kirsten, talk directly into your phone for me. I can't hear you. Can you hear me now? Much better, much better. So you've got credit card debt. Okay, how do I...

Yeah, how do I go about paying it if I only have about $200 and something in savings and it's about $600 total of bills? And it's like really lowered my credit score because I think I forgot to pay one of the bills and I got a letter that said my account might be delinquent, which is really bad. I need to contact the company and pay that. I hate to say it, it's going to sound so callous, so I'm only saying this because I care about you.

You've got to go get a job and earn that money. There's not a magic way here. Yeah, I actually have like three or four job interviews this week. Okay, great. I have another one tomorrow and Friday. Awesome. If they say you're hired, say, can I start right now? Yeah, I did say that. I said I could start immediately, and I should be back by next week if I got a job. What else are you doing to bring in income this week? Are you doing side gigs? No.

No, we need like money now. You have to get like a job job.

So that means, like, I did this in December, Kirsten. Here's what I did. I downloaded the Instacart driver app, and then it let me go drive for money. And that night, I made money.

I know Uber, but I'm a pretty bad driver. Oh, yikes. Yeah, but you got to do something. You got to do something. There's no magic here. Just an example. I'm saying we need money today. Maybe a bike or something. Do Uber with a bike. Not ideal, but better than a bike. I'm just saying, find the things that you are capable of doing in your area that can give you money this week. Not a hope for money later on down the road. Maybe dog walking. That's the best way of doing it. That's all I can think of.

Get on there today. You'll get healthy in the process. But put on Facebook Marketplace or Nextdoor app right now, right when you get off this phone, and start making money tonight. So do you mean like selling stuff or dog walking? No. Start dog walking tonight. How old are you? Okay. I'm 25. Okay. How much debt do you have total?

Uh, just the credit card, maybe about $600 total. I'm not really sure. Okay, and you said you think you forgot to make the credit card payment. Yeah, I've been trying to log in to see, but I think I'm having a little trouble. Like...

How long ago was this? Has it been more than 30 days? And it's already affected your credit score? Yeah, it could also be I haven't been paying my other credit cards in full. Like, I try to pay a little over the minimum if I can. Yeah, it could be that, too. I think it's time to cut up all the credit cards. Yeah, stop.

Okay.

I want you to step into adulthood and get out of the cycle that you've created for yourself. And that means we're going to cut up the cards. We're only going to use money we have. And we're going to create delayed gratification. And we're going to get a job. And we're going to climb out of this debt and stay out. Stay on the line. We're going to send you Financial Peace University. I can just bang my head on the desk. But I think you need to watch these videos and not just the clips on YouTube. I want you to watch all nine videos and do exactly what it says. ♪ music playing ♪

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah. I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own banks.

credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. And but that's what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds.

They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service. And the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey Tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I love it. The things that we teach, they so line up with. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding. It took less than five minutes.

It was so user friendly, like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I

I so, so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds.

and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. Fairwinds is federally insured by NCUA.

From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell here with Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Mary Ann is going to kick us off this hour in Ann Arbor, Michigan. What is going on, Mary Ann? Hi, how are you guys doing? Doing great. How can we help today?

Good. Yeah, I was hoping I could get some help with our financial situation to try to compact a long story. My husband...

lost his job of 12 years about six months after our first child was born. And we went through kind of a long period of unemployment. I ended up with an autoimmune disease where I can't work. I'm staying at home, taking care of our son. My husband has landed back on his feet with a steady job that we're very thankful for, but we're not, we're not making it month to month. We're making about half of the money we're used to making. And,

We got ourselves into a lot of debt during the unemployment and with me not being able to work anymore. And we don't know where to go. Yeah. Tell me about your autoimmune challenges.

Yeah, it was brought on actually by postpartum and I tried my best to work through health issues thinking it was postpartum and it was diagnosed as Hashimoto's, which is a chronic thyroid condition. Yeah, but it's exacerbated greatly by emotional distress, anxiety.

Family stress, relationship distress, right? 100%. Okay, so here's what I want you to commit to. Will you commit to something for me? Sure. Don't give up on yourself, okay? Because I can hear in your voice, you have a sense of shame about your situation, and that sets your body on fire from the inside out, right? Yeah.

It absolutely does. Okay. So before we get off this call, George is going to walk you through the money part of it. I'm going to hook you up with my friends at BetterHelp. I'm going to give you three months of therapy for free. And you can do it from your house. You don't have to go anywhere, okay? That's amazing. Thank you. I want you to talk to somebody. But you have to promise you're going to work, not fight. We're done fighting. Your body's exhausted. But we're going to metabolize some of this stuff.

And we're going to make peace in our body from the inside out. And we're going to talk to somebody and connect to the counselor and to connect with a therapist. And we're not going to give up. Okay. Thank you. This is a right now. It's not, it's not a death sentence. It's not forever. Okay. Thank you very much. All right. So where's your husband at with this whole thing? Does he realize that you guys are struggling and in survival mode? Oh yeah. Okay. Very much so. And what does he make?

Growth is about $73,000 or $74,000 a year. Take-home after taxes and our health insurance, he is contributing to a 401k. It's $50 a week, which we've talked about.

not doing short term. I know that's advised sometimes. So his growth or his take home after all that is about $4,100 a month. Okay. And we could increase that tomorrow to $4,300 a month if we stop investing temporarily. Right. His work does offer a pretty good match. I don't care if they offer bonbons and lollipops at the end of the day. You guys are broke. You don't have any money. Yeah.

Building wealth is not the problem right now. It's survival. And so let's focus on one thing at a time. We'll get back to building wealth, I promise. So if he does that, what are your total monthly expenses as it stands? So I did the EveryDollar app, and I put in just...

You know, we've cut back. We're a one-car household. We don't go out to eat. We don't go on vacation. We don't have fun. And it says we have about $80 left every month, which feels like a lot more than it is at the end of the month. Okay. So you got $80 left over to throw at debt. How much debt do you guys have total?

Um, with student loans and credit cards, we have, um, worked ourselves into about 35, 35,000. We have not been able to pay toward it. Um, are you making minimum payments? No. So what's going on with these debts? Okay. So, um,

So are you guys behind on all these bills and they're sending them to collections? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay.

We are. Unfortunately, we had a family member pass and we are getting some inheritance. We weren't expecting. How much? It's going to be around seventy five thousand. So that does help with that debt. We do plan to put it toward that. However, that we don't know what to do. Like, I feel like there's this huge monster looming over us of like.

not being able to afford life, and I feel pressure with this money coming in, being able to do the right thing. Well, let me get it straight. You have $35,000 total in debt. You're getting an inheritance of $75,000 in the next, what, month, six months? Do you know? Maybe two months, maybe three. Okay. So you're telling me that in 90 days, you guys could become completely debt-free with $40,000 in savings. Yeah. Correct? Correct.

It doesn't sound like you're confident in that plan. I'm just doing napkin math going, you guys just got to get out of jail free card with this inheritance. I know it feels like that. And then I just look at like we're not even paying toward our debt right now and we can't afford things. We've talked about possibly selling our house. I don't want to get back in the position where we empty our savings again because it was terrifying. You don't have any savings.

Right. But if you had no debt and $40,000, why would you need to go into debt ever again? Your family would have plenty of time for your husband to work this job, which is admirable, possibly at a second job, which he's not going to see you, not see the kids. It doesn't matter. We're surviving right now while also getting up at 430 in the morning and applying for other jobs. But your income is not the problem. I mean, he makes more than the average American salary for a household. And what's your mortgage every month?

$1,579. That's not the problem either. So I'm confused. Where's the other $2,500 going every month? Because you said you're not eating out and you're not paying your debt bills and you only have one car. Yes. Our car payment is $390. And then car insurance, that sort of groceries are about $600.

I think you need to sit down with your husband, look at this budget and go, hey, this inheritance is a blessing. It's going to clear our debts. It's not going to change our habits and behavior. What are we doing to make sure this never happens again?

And part of that is going to be going through Financial Peace University so that you guys have some shared common language, some shared vision for what the future is going to look like. And you're going to look back at this time and go, never again. We are breaking this generational family curse of we're going to be broke forever. We're climbing out of this thing once and for all. So hang on the line. We're going to send you Financial Peace University as well as that three months of better help to get you guys through this.

Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order? Yes, I have, George. Sketchy and never trust them. And that's why we recommend Delete Me. They help with that. Yeah, they do. Delete Me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites, and it is an incredible service that everyone needs.

And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids' names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find. So much. But Delete Me will delete your data, hence the name. It's gone. They'll wipe it out for you so you can sleep easy. That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information and

when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. So detailed and it's beautiful. Get this, so far they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible. Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts.

weird emails, spam calls, all of it. I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20% off their annual plans. Just go to join delete me.com slash Ramsey. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable. Again, that's join delete me.com slash Ramsey. Make sure to check it out. You guys. Amanda's up next in Albuquerque, New Mexico. What's going on, Amanda? How can John and I help today?

Hi. So my question for you guys is my husband and I enrolled in a national debt relief program to help with some bills. Please don't do that. So I just read on the Total Money Makeover not to do that, but I've already been doing it for a whole year. So my question is basically, did I just mess everything up? Yes.

Is it too late to get out of it? Should I just stay in since I've already been in it for a year? I don't know what to do. Well, I'm sorry to hear that you fell for the lies from these companies that say, hey, we're going to solve all of your debt for you. And what they – I'm guessing here's what they did. Tell me if I'm wrong. They said, hey, stop paying your debt payments. Instead, pay us those debt payments. Let them come after you with collections, and then we'll settle with them for a lower amount.

Yes. Okay. So what kind of fees have you paid into it so far? Oh, probably since I've been on it for a year, I want to say probably around like maybe $5,000. Okay. So I would contact them and say, hey, what's the current balance in my settlement account? Have any debts been settled yet? What fees have been deducted? And how do I cancel and withdraw the remaining funds?

Okay. So no, it's not too late. Yes, there might be some fees, penalties, stupid tax to pay here that you're going to have to emotionally get over. But the key is you can do all the things they're doing yourself without all the fees and without taking your credit score and credit report. Okay. How much debt do you guys have?

Probably around $125,000. That includes our house. Okay. So outside of the mortgage, that's what you contacted these people for, right? The consumer debt? Yeah. How much was that when you contacted them? So we enrolled with $34,000. They resolved what they said is around $16,000. They've already resolved. Okay. And so you have the remainder left to go? Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. And you'll be able to do that on your own. What's your household income? We make, both of us together, probably around $7,100 a month. That's amazing. You guys have a great income. Why'd you turn to these people in the first place? What caused you guys to get desperate enough?

I had lost a really good paying job and it took a huge pay cut. And then I wasn't able to, you know, pay some things. And then they started coming after us with like lawyers threatening to sue us and I got scared. I'm so sorry. Well, the good news is you take home $7,100 a month, you throw $3,000 at this debt, it's gone in six months. Yeah. Ta-da! And by the way, can I make you feel better? I did the same exact thing.

I was in my early 20s. Oh, that does make me feel a little bit better. I was in my early 20s. I kind of freaked out, called one of these companies. I called to check in like four months later and my debt was exactly the same. I just kept paying them money and then I started getting letters. And then when I called the company, they were like, no, it's cool, bro. Just like, don't worry about the letters. And I don't know. None of it smelled right. And I just said, y'all can go

buy a box of hair because I'm out. Yeah, they act like there's some kind of nonprofit charity that exists to help people who are hurting. They exist to bleed you dry for money while tanking your financial life and making you think they're doing you a favor. So I'm glad you at least caught it halfway through. Yeah. And the good news is...

That's okay. Well, you'll file it under the stupid tax category. We all have a thick book of all of our stupid tax stories, and you get to add to that. But call us back when you're debt-free, and we will celebrate with you, Amanda. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. Absolutely. All right. Mark is up next in Tacoma, Washington. Mark, what's going on?

Hey, good afternoon. My wife and I created an LLC and basically for any business ventures that we wanted to take and also prep for like another endeavor after I retire from the fire service.

And so we are wanting to add our daughters to our LLC that we created. So instead of having them as employees for this business, they'll be owners. I can save costs for the business and my daughters, more money for investments, more money for inheritance. How big of a business is this? I'm just starting it out right now. So it's just at the ground level.

And I'm just trying to prevent getting taxed to death. We're in the state of Washington, and the governor and everybody else wants to tax us to death. So I have my view of, yeah, this sounds pretty great. I think it'll work. I've taken considerations of, okay, how much, what percentage would they own taxed?

or have in the LLC. But of course, it's just my view. I'm curious what your views are, what your concerns that you see might happen in the future. Well, I'll let George get into the nitty gritty. The two big concerns I have, number one is it's a lot of thinking down the road for something that's just getting started. There's no assets yet. There's no money.

And so if the company, I know Dave did that with his, like his three kids are owners of the company. And so I don't have the nuances. George may know the nuances, but I know Dave is technically not an owner of this company. He's a shareholder, the single shareholder, and he's the CEO. He makes the decisions, but he's not the owner. And, but there was, what is it? 25 years or 20 years. They did this before built up a pretty substantial business before they made that move.

And so, yeah, George, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, well, the part where I was like, well, I set this up for future endeavors. What is the business you're wanting to start? And does it make sense for them to even have ownership in it? Having ownership in it, I mean, one of the main concerns is, like, I went to a workshop yesterday, and the state brought in all the different, like, Department of Revenues, et cetera, Secretary of State. So the one thing that I'm trying to prevent is...

It's like, you don't know if Social Security is going to be there. So I want to try and eliminate them having to pay Social Security if possible. How old are they? 22, 22 and 20. Do they want any part in this invisible business? Have they have you guys talked about this?

I haven't talked to him yet. I've talked to my wife about adding him, but I'm just trying to get all the answers to any possible questions before we even offer this up. My guess is before they become owners of a company, they have to have – they've got to be in the business.

They have the desire. They want to work the business. Okay. So I'm just trying to prevent us, like, paying too much in, like, Social Security, unemployment, L&I, and, of course, the mandatory long-term care tax that the state has imposed. Okay. And, yeah. Yeah, I don't see this as being the tax hack. I don't know. Was this, like, a video? Where did you even hear about this as a strategy? Yeah.

This is an idea that I came up with myself and just taking a look at. It's like, well, do owners have to pay all these other... I don't think there's a world where it's like, well, my kids are a part of it, so I don't have to pay taxes. Have you worked with a CPA before? Do you have a tax pro that you trust? No.

I'm going to be finding one. Okay. You can jump on ramsaysolutions.com and click on Trusted Experts, and we have a vetted network of tax pros that can help you with this. That's who I would go to. I'm not an expert in setting up LLCs for tax benefits and all of that, but I will tell you I've seen a lot of people who saw a TikTok about how they can get their six-year-old to model, and they can pay them $30,000 a year, and it's a hack of the wealthy, and that's

I just call BS on that and it's a good way to get audited. Now, your daughters are obviously grown. So the new concern is why would they want to work in a business that doesn't exist with the promise of a paycheck one day? I would just go, hey, I'm going to build the business on my own. And if they feel called to it later on down the road, they're welcome to be a part of it. That's how I would approach it personally. Or even at the

Well, no, they're already grown up. I had a whole other idea if they were really young, but they're not. Can you pitch me the business in 15 seconds? Yeah, what's the business? Going in, flushing tankless water heaters. Not everybody knows that tankless water heaters need to be serviced, flushed annually. That's a great idea. I would hire you to come do that at my house. Okay. I love it.

Next part. I'm in Tennessee. We don't have all those taxes here. So yeah, see if you can do it. See if you can make money. And if they get excited about the prospect of being a part of this, invite them in on it and then figure out what are the tax implications now? Is it better or worse? Who knows what? But I think the CPA is a great start. And then getting this business off the ground is the next step.

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with 24-7 professional monitoring at SimpliSafeDirect.com. That's 50% off at SimpliSafeDirect.com. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell here with Dr. John Deloney. And before we get to another call, John, I want to bring your attention to this article from The Atlantic. Here's the headline. There are two kinds of credit cards.

And the writer talks about credit card balances are at an all-time high, $1.2 trillion. And the share of borrowers who are late on their payments has reached its highest point since the aftermath of the Great Recession. So we're in a real –

crucial point here with the debt cycle we found ourselves in. And she goes on to say that this credit card market has now sort of divided. There's two paths here. There's two types of people using these credit cards. The one, the wealthy ones who have the generous benefits taking advantage of this. And then there's the other side, which is credit card companies offering expensive debt to the poor with sky-high interest rates of now 21.5% is the highest average APR in decades. So...

Probably the number one pushback we get from folks who, when we say cut up your credit card is they always talk about, yeah, but I get free flights or I get free hotel points. And so if you go to holiday and all the time and holiday and I have a buddy who travels a lot for work and holiday in as like a frequent flyer, frequent rewards member, or you use Southwest, they give you points. That's fine. That's inside the company that's saying, Hey, we want to discount you further for business. That's fine.

But when you're using these credit cards and you get points on flights and whatever, you show this in your book, but here's yet another article detailing when you sit on a flight paid for with credit card points, you're

single mother who's trying you just had emergency expense is paying your plan paying for that flight the credit card company is not your friend they're not hooking you up for using that they're not like hey you know you've used us a bunch we're gonna give you a free airline ticket they're taking from somebody who can't afford to pay their bill or who is struggling and they're taking that person is paying your bill and

And so I just want people to think through, man, if you're using cards just for the, I get free flights every year. Cool. But somebody's paying for that flight. And that ultimately, um, I'm not trying to be goody two shoes when I, before I worked at Ramsey, I had a move with a comp with my company and the company is going to pay for the move, but I had to front load it. I went and opened up a rewards card so I could get the flight points. And it wasn't until I was literally on the drive and I was like, wait a minute, who's

Who's paying for this flight? These guys aren't my friends. And when I dug into it, I was like, oh, my gosh, it's delinquent borrowers, folks who are broke and who are struggling. They're paying for my flight or my hotel. And I want out of that system completely. I don't ever want to be a part of a predatory system like that if I can in any way help it. So I just want to opt out of the whole gross game.

Yeah. And that's what the article breaks it down into these transactors. These are the wealthy, well-to-do people. You know, they pay their annual fees, but they're not racking up interest. They're not paying for any other charges. They pay it off every month. And then you've got the revolvers, which is the subprime borrowers who are using this as a short-term loan, can't pay it back, racking up 22% APR, who are essentially subsidizing the rewards for the wealthy to-do folks. Right.

And so, again, it's not a moral thing. It's not a like you're still going to go to heaven if you use credit cards. But to support that, John's like, we'll see. We'll see. But the data that I broke down in my book, Breaking Free from Broke, I did the research to go, I want to see data behind this, not just John's opinion. And this is from the Fed. They said there's an annual redistribution of $15 billion from less to more educated, poorer to richer, from high to low minority areas, widening existing disparities.

So they found this in the data.

And credit card companies, people say, well, George, it's coming from the credit card transaction fees. And I dug into the revenue of Capital One and saw, no, the majority of their revenue is happening through interest. And so we don't know exactly how the rewards are funded, but we do know the majority of the revenue is coming from interest and fees from the revolvers, the subprime borrowers, versus the 3% they're charging business owners, which, by the way, those people are also getting screwed. Yeah.

And just so we know, between 2020 and right now in 2024, $100 billion more credit card company firms, credit card firms made from interest payments. It went from $76 billion to $170 billion in 2024. Four years.

It's wild. That explains why they're sponsoring the Taylor Swift tour and we can't afford tickets to the Taylor Swift tour. That explains it. Thank you for that. And by the way, I love that this person called this out. Once you have one issue, your brakes go out on your car, suddenly you need to, you know, you're driving an old, old used car.

because that's what you can afford and somebody gave it to you, but now your local community has another $100 because it's a hybrid fee and they don't have the gas revenues in your community. And suddenly you put something on the credit card. You just are like, dude, I have to. The washer breaks. Your kid needs a pair of shoes for made the cross country team and you swipe it.

At 20-something percent interest, it's so hard to get out of that cycle. Once you swipe it once, man, it's so tough to get out of it. It's not worth it. Man, if you can avoid playing this game at all, get out of the game. Just opt out of the whole system. And I tell people, I say, hey, use a debit card and do a budget.

and you will make back more than 2% in rewards. Right. Just in how you spend. How you spend, yeah. And you'll be able to just budget for all the things you want instead of hoping to be blessed by these companies. This breaks my heart, man, because there's people trapped in this deal and I hate it. There is, let's be honest, there's idiots who are like,

Buying burritos with Klarna or whatever. That person exists, right? But that's outside the bell curve. The majority of Americans are trying to make stuff got way more expensive the last five or six years and it got way, way more expensive recently. People are just trying to survive and they're swiping this thing and once you get in that cycle, man, it is tough, tough to get out of. It's like a rip current. All right, let's go to the phones. Paul is in Miami up next. What's going on, Paul? Hi, how are you guys? What's up?

So I had a question in regards to what I should do in terms of life insurance and ways to invest my money. Okay. I currently have a term, life insurance, a 20-year term policy, but I also do have a VUL policy. Who sold you that? Who hates you that much? What enemies have you made? I was kind of scared that you guys were going to say that.

I didn't know too much about it. I've only had it for about a month and a half now.

Okay. But I've been reading a little bit more into it. My fiance, she got information about this. And I do have my Roth IRA, but I kind of got convinced to do this also. But I was a little skeptical about it just because the mixing life insurance policy with investing my money. Yeah, for those who are listening, let's explain, Paul. It's a variable universal life policy is what you signed up for.

Correct. And it's a type of permanent life insurance that does include a cash value portion that is invested. Okay. So your fiance got information about this. She has one and now you have one too? Correct. Okay. And you've had it for a month and a half or so? Roughly, yeah. Okay. And what's the policy, what's the face value of the policy? So for the death benefit? Yeah. Okay.

It's $200,000 for the long term, for the life policy. And what's it cost everyone? It's about $230 a month. And then how much do you have in term? The term is $500,000 for the death penalty, and that's about $20-something a month. Wow. So you're telling me, you're telling the nation that it's 10 times less expensive to get term life with over double the value.

Correct. Just making sure you heard that in front of everyone. So what's it going to cost to get out of this policy? Or are you trying to convince me that you want to stay in it?

No, on the contrary. The reason why I kind of like gave it a chance is because they, the way they explained it to me about how they also invest the money that we're putting into it is kind of like you got both with one, you know, you do get your life insurance, but more only for like an investment and then the returns for like a 30 year looks very similar to like a Roth IRA and like kind of returns.

So that's why we kind of decided to, okay, you know, like this doesn't seem like a bad idea. What they also tell you is, well, man, you got to stick it out for like a decade and then you'll really see the growth. But the first couple of years, you're mostly paying us premiums and fees. So here's what's going to hurt. When you cancel this policy, there's going to be surrender fees and it's going to hurt. Yes. There's going to be a stupid tax involved. But you and your fiance, if you're going to continue in this relationship, we're both canceling this thing together. Okay. Do you need to convince her?

I don't think so. I told her I was going to give you guys a call because she knows I listen to you guys every morning. Good. And then whoever this person that sold this to you, block their number and tell everyone in your life to avoid them because they are not here to help anybody. I'm so sorry, man. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney, open phones at 888-825-5225. John, let's talk about money and marriage.

Yeah, those are two things you and I talk about a lot, and we're just hanging out as bros. That's what we do. That's right. And we got two weekends on sale now for our Money in Marriage Getaway, which feature Dr. John Deloney and our friend Rachel Cruz. I sometimes make a guest appearance if they're kind enough to have me. And it's three incredible days in Nashville with your spouse.

learning the tools to strengthen your connection, deepen your intimacy and more. And this is, it's become one of my favorite events we do. There's something really special. It's by far my favorite event. Yeah. Everyone has its own like vibe and flavor and nobody leaves the same. That's right. And the,

The proof is in the pudding. We usually sell about half the tickets for the following year right there at that event. But people will say, I want this to become a part of the regular rhythm of our life. We want to get away for a weekend and go reimagine it. We're already working on the curriculum this year. It's going to be all brand new stuff.

And I'm pretty hyped about it. It's going to be awesome. Join us November or February. Early bird pricing is available now. Tickets start at $7.49 per couple, which if you know about these marriage getaways, that's a steal. We intentionally, yeah, everybody's hurting out there financially. And it's $749 plus getting to Nashville plus staying here for a few, that's expensive. We know that. It's not for everyone. But we intentionally make it cheaper than every other event because we want people to be able to come.

Absolutely. So go check it out, ramsaysolutions.com slash getaway, or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. It's going to be a good time. All right, let's go to the phones. Amy is up next in NYC. What's going on, Amy?

Hi. Thank you. So I have a relatively small car loan, but for my income, it's pretty high. And I'm in college right now, and my mom agreed to pay it until my brother finishes college because he's now using the car. Okay.

It's a car I bought before I was enrolled in a bachelor program. Okay. And I did need it at the time, but then I got relocated to New York with a job I used to have. And now I couldn't afford a car to park here, and the public transit is better anyway than a car. So you just don't need this car anymore, and you're stuck with this loan.

So who's driving it full-time right now? But he's not paying the payment? Mom is? What is the win for you in this scenario? I'm so confused. Dude.

The car is going down in value, and it's in your name? The loan is? I feel like we're all getting high on our own supply right now. So loan is in your name, the title is in his name, but mom is paying the payment. You can't triple stamp and double stamp? No, I bought it in a title-holding state, so the state has the title, but it is in my name. Okay. But the win is that selling it...

Basically always would put me still paying off a car that I don't have because I will be upside down on it no matter what. That's why I'm confused how this is a win. It's continually going down in value while you still have the loan amount. How upside down are you? For me, it's a lot. I think I could make maybe $1,500 for it, and I owe $6,800. So you owe $6,800, and you think it's worth private party $1,500? Mm-hmm.

I think so. I went through a few different websites. How crappy of a car is this? I mean... I could sell like a Barbie Jeep for $1,500. Yeah, and it's not a great bike. I mean, yeah, I don't know. I really looked for a good car, and I bought it for $13,000. And when I bought it, I'm not kidding, there was nothing for cheaper that was certified with like a mechanic, you know? Okay. So what is your solution? What are you asking about today?

Well, I was thinking, I don't have a credit card, but I do have good credit. Please don't do this. Whatever you're about to say, don't do it. Are you going to try to take out a credit card and roll the balance and try to beat the 0% for X number of months? Yeah, I won't if you tell me it's a fact. There's one way to do this. One. You ready? This is a hack. This is the Instagram YouTube hack. Are you ready? Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Get three jobs and work like crazy for six months and pay this stupid thing off. It's killing you. And by the way, 100% chance this blows up and ruins your relationship with your mom and your brother. That's the only way. That's the hack. Well, I can't do three jobs right now. I already have one part-time, and I'm a full-time student, and I already don't have a lot of time. Okay, you get to pick your poison. I mean, you're trying—

Credit cards don't offer you introductory 0% hookups because they're your friend. They know that if they can get a college student like you, there's a 100% chance that something will go wrong with this car and you don't have any cash. The people who fall for this stuff are desperate. And there's a 3% to 5% transfer fee just to do this. And so you'll buy a tire and then you'll pay the minimum because something else is going to come up.

And then mom's going to call and say, hey, I don't feel good. Can you come visit me? And you're going to put like, okay. And you're going to put something else on that credit. It's just how it happens. You know how I know? Because it happened to me. It happens to millions and millions of people. Do you know how much more credit card interest credit card companies make in 2024 than they did in 2020? No. A hundred billion more dollars.

Mm-hmm. I've never had a credit card, so do you suggest that I just never do one ever? Never, ever, ever, ever, ever. Explain to me why you would need one and how it would benefit you. Well, I have a good credit, and I don't have a problem only buying things for the purpose of building credit. Yes, you do. You have a car that you can't – that you're $5,000 upside down on.

But the situation I was in is you can't have a job in my old town without having a car. So I really did pick a very affordable option at the time because I made more money having a car than I think I would have. You made more money. I hope you're going to law school because you were great at justifying decisions. Brilliant.

Pretty incredible. Well, I mean, the public transit in Oklahoma isn't enough for you to have a job. No, I totally get it. I totally get it. You were trying to go from, I need a car to get from A to B to, I actually made money by going into debt and being underwater in this car because technically my job provides me with more income. My car that I went to college with was a 98 Tercel Easy hatchback that I could barely fit in because I'm a humongous guy and it cost $1,000.

And I sold it to my little brother for 300 bucks and he drove it to college until him and his friends all pitched in and they drove it out into a field until it exploded. I'm very open into doing that in the future. I was nervous about getting stuck on a highway with like an unreliable. I got you. I totally got you. I got you. Totally got you. I'm not beating you up for what happened. You made a choice and it is what it is, what it is. What I'm trying to tell you is there's only one path out now.

And you can try. I'm just telling you, millions of Americans are drowning because they just tried to move stuff around instead of clenching their fists and heading right into the middle of it, swinging as hard as they could. And I'm only telling you this because I love you. There's just one way. There's just one way through. And dude, I'm like, I have a nine year old daughter. You're just my daughter just 10 years from now. And I would tell you the same exact thing.

You just have a stupid tax of $5,000. You're upside down in a car that you don't even drive and that your brother is leeching off of you. I love him, but he's leeching off of you. And your mom's like, woohoo, I'll just kick in on the insurance, like whatever. And nobody's, everyone is losing here. Yeah, it is. And there's only one way through it. And that's just to suck it up and go get $6,000 and pay this stupid thing off.

So there's two options. Either your brother buys it from you, and he takes over, and he deals with it. Yeah, sell it to him. Or you come up with the difference that you're underwater on, either through a personal loan or savings, and you get rid of this debt.

And you can punt it till after you graduate. I'm just telling you there's going to be a thing that happens between now and then. And you've already cracked the door to getting a credit card to solve your immediate problem. And three years of mom making minimum payments while the interest racks up and you continually go underwater. I don't like that plan either. So we need to have a come to Jesus family meeting and get this thing off your back. Just let's own it. It's not my car anymore. I don't need it anymore. And I want to get rid of this debt.

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From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel here with bestselling author Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Sarah is up next in Anaheim, California. Sarah, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely. What's your question today?

Okay, so kind of back story. I'm 43. I have a 56-year-old boyfriend. We've been together 20 years, lived together 18. He's financially irresponsible. He's 56, and he's got maybe $8,000 to $10,000 in retirement. You just said that as though you just figured that out. That was incredible. Like, we've been together for more than half my life, and I just had this discovery. How long has he been irresponsible? Oh.

It's the entire relationship. We've talked about money. We've argued about money. We've fought about money. He didn't even put money into his 401k at work until I finally cut my foot down and was like, no, you have to. Well, this sounds fun. Yeah. Can I ask you another question? Oh, it gets worse. Oh, okay. Excellent. I'll hand you the shovel back. You keep digging. Go ahead.

Okay, so I just found out the bombshell is his mom had taken out a reverse mortgage on her condo, took about half a million dollars out because her husband was having really bad medical problems. She had to put him in hospice and everything. So she took about half a million out eight years ago, and I just found out she's got $40,000 left in the bank. What does that have to do with you?

Because he's looking at me and saying, we're going to have to bail my mom out. And I'm looking at him like, you can't even afford to retire. What do you mean? I don't know. How entwined are your finances with his? They're completely separate. We never combine. We don't even have a shared bank account. Okay. How are you doing financially?

I wish it was better. I have about $45,000 in savings, about $8,000 in checking. I put money into a 401k at every single job. Do you have any debt? I'm not...

No, but I'm driving a 15-year-old car that's got 220,000 miles on it. So probably going to need a new car in the next couple of years. Okay. Go ahead, George. No, I'm just kind of getting laid in. So you're completely debt-free, savings in the bank. You've been investing for a while. And it sounds like you're fed up with him.

Yeah. And you're he's trying to drag you into his mess and you're going, no, no, no, no. I'm trying to be fiscally responsible. And you've you've hitched your wag your wagon knowingly to this guy. Actually, you haven't hitched anything other than emotionally for 20 years. Yeah. Y'all just like played Peter Pan. Like, are you just Venmoing for like rent? How does this work?

I pay my check for rent. We split the rent 50-50. He pays utilities. I pay groceries. Yeah. Okay. Does this sound like a romantic relationship? Oh, there's so many other problems with the relationship. Like, we... It's a sexless relationship. Like, we haven't had sex in, like, I don't know, nine years. We opened up the relationship, like, eight years ago to try to fix that. Yeah, that usually works. Whenever couples aren't working out together, just...

Like hooking up with a neighbor always works. That's good. That works great. Okay. So, so here's the deal. Here's a question. Like he's not on the phone to defend himself. His mother and his parents are having challenges. You're the only person on the call. Yeah. How old are you again? I'm 43. 43. Let's just pretend you have 50 years left to go. You're not even halfway done yet. You cannot do one single thing about anything that's come before this phone call.

Yeah, you're holding a pen and a blank piece of paper You get to decide what story you write next end of discussion doesn't matter about him He has shown you his cards. I won't marry you. I won't participate in life with you I won't do any sort of on like I won't live in any sort of reality. I

At all. And there's probably a million reasons why partridge in a pear tree. We're not going to go through all that. The only thing that matters is you're holding a pen and a blank piece of paper. What do you write next? I mean, here's the deal. It's going to be hard to break up. It's going to be hard to, you're going to have the sunk cost fallacy. Like I've already given 20 years and I might as well just have another 50 miserable years. So when I die, I've got 70 miserable. You can do that.

And you can also stay in this thing. That's going to be hard. The only options you have is a hard choice. Choose your heart. Yeah. I mean, I honestly, like not even a year ago, I was like pricing out what it would cost to like get my own flat. Hold on. I don't care about a year ago. I care about right now. A year ago is past.

Yeah. I just have so much guilt, which is why I haven't left. Because I know if I leave, he's financially screwed. He's a grown man who's made choices for 20 years. For 50 years. Yeah. Not 50. For about 40 years, he's made choices. Yeah. I mean...

Yeah, I mean I want out I wanted out I had a come to Jesus talk with him six months ago and I told him I'm not happy None of those talks matter. He was shocked. None of those talks matter. Yeah. They don't matter you had those for years and years and years and years You had one when you decided to sleep with other people because you thought that would fix it you had those when you were like When are you gonna marry me? He's like, oh, you know and you've had those and had those and had those and had those they don't matter It doesn't it doesn't work. Of course. He was shocked by the way. He's got a great setup. I

Yeah, he is. He's got a sugar mama that's going to take care of him. He doesn't have to worry about anything. And by the way, his family doesn't even have to worry about anything. You'll just fix it. You always have. Yeah. So what's the real reason you're calling today, Sarah? Did you want permission from us? Did you want us to acknowledge that this is crazy?

Yeah, kind of. And I'm just like, I'm overwhelmed. I'm like, I don't even know what to do. Do you have any girlfriends in your community that you can just go sit down and just unload on? Just say, hey, I need you just to buckle up because I got a story for you. I don't know what to do. Yeah. Okay, you need to do that. I'm not going to be on the hook for telling you you need to leave this guy. That's your choice. You're a grown woman. Yeah. I'm going to tell you the situation is profoundly unhealthy for everybody involved. And it's not your burden to bear.

I know it feels like that. People are going to be mad at you and say, you were supposed to be there for me, but this isn't your mess. You all have been roommates for years, and roommates move out. Yeah. And roommates choose to stay. You get to choose, but I just want you to take 100% ownership, not of all the things we should have said and didn't do. What am I going to do next? And whatever you decide to write is going to be hard. Yeah.

You're going to have to choose guilt over resentment. And there's a lot of resentment that's built up over 20 years of you carrying the load. And it might be time to switch over and try the guilt lever and go, I feel bad. This sucks. But it's better than letting this poison eat me from the inside out. But I want you to sit down with a friend, maybe a local counselor, and ask,

Just get all of this stuff out because I want you to go towards something. I want you to go to somebody who cares about you, a new job, new relationship, a new safe place to live. I want you to go towards something. Don't just run into the night screaming because you're going to end up right back in the same situation. Hang on a line, Sarah. I'm going to send you Dr. John's book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, to help walk you through this. ♪♪♪

Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's Day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication, and more.

This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th, and early bird prices start at $749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets today at ramseysolutions.com slash events. ♪♪♪

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, you're wondering where your money's going, your first step is getting on a budget. And our team is hosting free budgeting trainings this month where you'll learn step-by-step how to make and stick to a budget using our app, EveryDollar. Plus, you can get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q&A. Spots are limited, so go sign up for free at everydollar.com slash webinar.

Rosa is up next in Phoenix. What's going on, Rosa? How can we help? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure. So about two weeks ago, my husband lost his job. Oh, that's so scary. Communication issue with his employer, who's also the owner of the company. It's a very small company. And he's been working with him for over 15 years.

And he got fired over text. Wow. I make decent money, but we don't have any savings. I have a 401k. But our expenses alone are about $5,000 a month. And it's just not enough to cover all of our expenses with just my salary. And I'm looking at getting a home equity loan, not a line of credit, but a loan.

to hold us over and consolidate some debt until he can find some other employment. How much debt do you guys have? It's not going to be anywhere close. I have about $20,000 in credit cards. There's two car loans. One is about $18,000, and the other one's almost paid off, so there's maybe $1,000 left on that vehicle. Okay. Any other debt? No.

Okay. So this problem started long ago. Even with two incomes, you guys have been unable to keep up your lifestyle. Yes. So what's been going on beneath the surface? This job just revealed the house of cards that you guys have built, but it wasn't the issue.

Hmm.

But I don't want to lose my house. I'm going to ask you. Please, please, please. Hey, Rosa, listen. You got a ton going on, okay? Let's knock these out one thing at a time, okay? Because real quick, what anxiety does is it begins to go and then, and then, and then, and it spools on us, right? Yes. And you haven't slept in the last week, have you?

Not a lot. I know. Please, please, please do not put your house on the auction block for a short-term problem, okay? I want to not promise you, but almost guarantee you something. Your husband has not told you the full truth about why he got fired. I've had to let... Well, my father's text, it's been a communication issue between him and the owner, and I actually know the owner. We've known him for...

Probably the whole time we've been married. Okay, hold on. Hold on. You're jumping right back into solutions. I'll back out. Cool. He got fired from that. There's one solution right now. He's got to get two jobs today at Walmart and at Home Depot. And then he's got to drive tomorrow morning and he can apply for jobs later. Y'all don't have any money.

This isn't the time for hacks. This isn't the time for debt consolidation. This isn't the time for putting your house on the block. Because one thing you've proven to yourself over the last 20 years is something always comes up and the worst case scenario usually happens. So why in the world would you put your house on the block? Yeah, you understand. You take out this home equity loan. You now have a second mortgage and your home is at risk. If you miss a payment, they take your home.

Well, I make enough money that I could cover. You just told us you don't. Consolidation is going to pay off all these credit cards. No, don't do consolidation. You're just moving dead around. It's like putting Spanx on it. If I put on a bunch of Spanx, it doesn't make me weigh less, right? Yeah.

It just makes a particular pair of pants fit better. It doesn't make me. They market these products to people who are desperate like you thinking this is going to be the thing that fixes it all. That's right. Or it's going to be a bandaid to get us to the next week. And you're going to be calling back a week from now saying we can't make the HELOC payment. They're threatening us. They're going to take away the home. We can't make our debt payments. So the solution here is, number one, your income and then your expenses. You said you have five thousand expenses. Right now we're in survival mode.

So all we can cover is basic food, utilities, our housing, and transportation to get us to our job. That's the only thing we're doing. Anything else is getting removed from the budget. And I can tell by the way you're talking, you guys have never sat down to make a budget. It's still every single dollar where to go. So it starts tonight. We're going to go, here's how much Rosa makes. You're going to pause all investing. Are you doing any investing right now? I'm guessing you can't because you've got three 401K loans out.

I'm just doing the 3% that my company matches. I just lowered it. Lower it to zero. Is it at zero? Okay. You need every single dollar you can squeeze out of your income. Do you understand? So 3% matters. 1% matters. So how much will you be taking home after tax, after healthcare premiums? How much can you bring home every month as it stands today? Let me look real quick here. Okay.

$4,000. Okay. So now we have a solvable problem. Our expenses are $5,000. How do we get our expenses down to $4,000 or less this month? And find out how much lower you can get those expenses. And then go, how much more can we make with husband working three side jobs this week, doing whatever he can to bring in income, swallowing his pride, doing the side gig, asking people, what can I do to serve you in exchange for money to cover the gap? He's not willing to do that.

He's unwilling to work? He's applied for unemployment. So that's what he's been working on. He says he's been applying for a job and he's had a few interviews. Is he an able-bodied man? He doesn't have a job yet. Pardon me? Is he an able-bodied man? He's got some health issues. He's 57 years old. But he can go do something. I don't understand why he can swallow his pride and take unemployment, but he can't swallow his pride and go do two side hustles.

Right. I don't understand. Have you sat down and said, I need you to swallow your pride on this one? I don't even say that because he'll fight you on that. I don't have any pride. Can you say, hey, for three months, I know you're grinding, but we got to go make some money. He's counting on this $320 unemployment. That's what's going to save us? He's just trying to stick it to his old boss. And the moment he gets a job, they cut it off. How much are these cars worth?

One is probably about $18,000. It's a 21 Chrysler. And mine is a 2017 Toyota Camry. But like I said, we only owe two more payments on that one. So that one will be gone. What's the Camry worth? It's probably $8,000, the way it is. And you owe one. So you could make $7,000 right there. Yes.

And you could sell the other car and be free and clear of it with $7,000 to get you a car. Could you go down to a single car since Homeboy's unemployed anyways? I don't know that he'd be willing to do that either. Like I said, our relationship is broken, so we don't hardly even talk. Okay, here's the deal. We can't help you, huh? You guys lit the house on fire, and he's saying, well, he doesn't want to go. He's warm and cozy.

Yeah, we can't help you. I mean, if every option you're putting up against, he won't, he won't, he won't, then at some point you have to decide, do I want to be safe or not? And if he is really as unhelpful and won't speak to you and whatever as you say he is, you're in a situation that is unsafe.

Get with some girlfriends in your local community that are friends of yours and sit down and walk through the challenges here. You may need to see a local counselor. You got big challenges ahead of you, but please don't take out a HELOC on your house.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Give us a call at 888-825-5225. So many of you out there are sharing the show with people you want to see win with money. Thank you for doing that. And we want to make it even easier. So this June, we've got a brand new Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube.

This playlist is filled with classic Ramsey clips like what are the baby steps, how to pay off debt with a dead snowball, how to build an emergency fund, and so much more. So instead of going, hey, I guess I'll send a random clip from the show, you can send the friend, the family member this playlist and go, hey, this is a taste of what Ramsey's all about.

So here's how to share it. Click the link at the top of the show notes to open the Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube, and then you can text it, DM it, send it in the group chat, and just say, hey, really enjoyed this playlist. Think you guys might enjoy it as well. And if you're listening on radio, we've got the playlist featured at the top of our YouTube channel. Just search for Ramsey Show on YouTube, and you'll see it there. So who's the person you're going to share this with? Think about that person. Who's someone who could really use this information? It's one share and one step that could change everything for one person in your life.

Juan is in Seattle, Washington, up next. What's going on? Hi, guys. Thank you for taking my call. It's actually a privilege and an honor to talk to you guys. Oh, you as well. What's up, brother? Well, I got introduced to the Ramfee program about 10, 11 years ago, and right away I got term life insurance because my bride and I, we have five kids, and we're

but i didn't realize that it was going to be up in 10 years because i thought i got it for 20. um it's coming up to end here soon and i'm trying to do my due diligence and try to get new term in life but i've been denied twice by two different place two different places

Um, I do have a supplemental term with my work and I have a little one that I got through, uh, the NRA, but it's, it's nowhere near the 10, you know, the 10 times amount of money I bring in. And let me tell you, I still got four kids at home and God knows, I don't want to, you know, leave the burden of having to take care of me or, you know,

Why did you get denied, bro? What's going on with your health? Well, the last one, I finally got clarity. The biggest one is my BMI.

I'm 6'4", 330 pounds, and I'm down almost 40 pounds. Congratulations. Good for you. Thank you. So that's the big one, you know, a little bit of high blood pressure. I'm right on the cusp of diabetes. My doctor put me on a diet, which is helping me lose the weight. Okay. I don't know what else to do. It literally scares me. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, can I just tell you, you're talking to just three dads right here. Me and you and George are all three dads, and all of us have had that night where we're laying in bed like, dude, if something happens to me, right? And so I hear it in your voice. If what you're telling me is right, that you're pre-diabetic or right on the line with metabolic challenges, and you're already a big guy, and you're obese, and you're struggling with X, Y, and Z,

Can this be the moment that you say, I'm going to commit to being at my youngest kid's wedding? Because all of what you just explained to me, I'm going to say this because I love you, is a solvable problem.

Okay. It is working with, continuing to work with your doctor. You know what? I'm going to hook you up. TrainWell supports my show. It's a workout and a personal trainer in an app. It's amazing. I use it. My manager uses it. My wife uses it. Kelly, the producer of my show, uses it. I'm going to hook you up with three months for free, but you got to promise me you'll use it.

Oh, I will. I will. And if you've never worked out before, or if you're like me, you've been working out for 30 years, it doesn't matter. They'll up the game with you, and it's a personal trainer that walks with you, okay? But listen to me. Okay. This is a solvable challenge. We've had calls on the show where someone's got brain cancer, somebody's got a heart defect or a heart transplant or whatever. That's not what I hear from you. Is that fair? Okay.

So six months from now, you might be a totally different man and reapply and get approved. Absolutely. And so that's the goal to aim for. And I think this is the fire you need. You've got a great why. And this is the wake up call is getting denied for life insurance and going, my family still needs me. Yeah. Because the other option is be self-insured. And it sounds like you're not there yet to where if something happened, you don't have enough assets and investments that could replace your income.

That's right. My bride and I, we're still working baby step two. We have, because of my bride, you know, she's the neck of the family, we have about one month's worth of emergency fund, and we're working the baby steps slowly but surely. How long have you been following the plan?

We initially came close to being debt-free back in the very beginning of 2020. COVID hit us hard, and we fell back into debt. What does that mean, it hit you hard? Work-wise. I went from working 50-plus hours a week to less than half, and

We focused on the four walls and utilities and food. How much debt do you guys have left in Baby Step 2? I want to say about $40,000 or $50,000 total. What do you make right now? Last year, I averaged about $38,000. My bride, $71,000. What do you do making $38,000 a year?

I'm a soils tech. I essentially go out and test the compaction levels of construction sites before they build new roads or new buildings. My regular wage is $20 an hour. Every once in a while, I get the prevailing wage, which is four or five times that. Here's what I'm hearing. Can I tell you what I'm hearing? And we don't have a ton of time, and so I want to get right to the middle of it.

You don't look in the mirror and respect you. And I don't want you taking another step that you don't respect the dad you are, the husband you are, the man you are. Fair? That's fair. You're a dad who loves his kids, don't you? Absolutely. Okay, you're worth more than $38,000 a year, brother. And I know you feel good in your job and it feels secure in X, Y, and Z. You can make that work in a Starbucks. And so I want you to hit the street and find a job. I don't care what the job is.

But I want you to find a job that's making more than $38,000 a year. I'm not knocking people that that's all they can do. But if you know how to test soil compact levels and work with contractors and deal with all that nightmare stuff and plus run your own small thing, then you can do a bunch of jobs that will pay you double or triple or quadruple what you're making right now. Okay. But it's going to make you bust out of your comfort zone. Same as going to the gym.

Sam's getting on a diet plan and not skipping and changing diets every four weeks and trying this. I'm going to try fasting. I'm going to try keto. I'm going to try vegetarian. I'm just going to be consistent for the first time in my life. And I'm also going to hook you up with three months free of better help. I want you to get in front of a counselor and you can do it from your home computers. You don't have to go anywhere and lose an hour of work right now. And I want you to begin to talk about those demons that are inside your chest because everyone in your life loves you. The guy who's struggling with loving you is you right now. Fair? Yeah.

They're not wrong. Okay. You know what to do, man. The journey's going to be hard, bud. This is day one, brother. Are you in? Absolutely. I want you to say, I'm in. I'm in. For your health, for your finances, for your family, for you. Absolutely. I want you to be 6'4 and down 100 pounds this time next year. Are you in?

I can sure as hell put in the effort. Okay. And not because it's a number. I don't care about the number on a scale. I care because you're worth feeling good when you wake up in the morning. And you're worth not snoring all night. And you're worth laughing and rolling around on the floor with your kids. And I want that last kid of yours to have you walk him down the aisle. Or if it's your son as the last one, I want you hugging his guts out backstage before he walks down the aisle.

This is how family trees change. When one person stares it down, looks in the mirror and says, enough is enough is enough. And the change starts with me. Day one starts today. Hang on the line, brother. We're going to hook you up with some stuff. All right? And we'll walk with you. You call us anytime. We love you, man. Go get them.

Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about. And all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Homebase is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by

by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate. That's ramseysolutions.com slash real estate. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 1 verse 1. Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers. Mark Twain said, what's the difference between a taxidermist and a tax collector?

The taxidermist takes only your skin. Ooh, Mark Twain burn. Burn, sick burn. Mark Twain burn. Dude, he would have crushed it if he had Twitter. Can you imagine the amount of followers he would have had? He probably is at the top right now. Still, to this day. He's been dead for a couple hundred years. Not even his real name. Pseudonym. Look it up. Google it. Good old Sam. Sherry's in San Diego up next. What's going on, Sherry? Hi, thanks for taking my call. So, quick...

background. We moved to California in 2019. We bought a house, moved into our dream neighborhood to raise our three little girls. We had sold our business in Las Vegas and sold our home to do this. Well, we opened a business out here and COVID completely crushed us. We lost the business out here. My husband decided to take an opportunity in Las Vegas and purchase a business out there. So in the last...

two years he's been traveling back and forth to the business every week and then I'm at home with the little kids by myself during the week and he's home on the weekends. Essentially we're at a point now where we have to decide on because we're kind of behind on everything. We've got credit card debt which we never had it before. Financially strapped. I'm not making much money right now with my business and so now we're at a point where do we sell our home out here, move

move back to Vegas for the business essentially, and for our family to be together and the stability. Um, but our rent will be way more in Vegas than it is here because our timing was right when we bought out here in California. So that's kind of, and we would pay off our debts with the equity that we have in our home if we sell our home. So we're trying to figure out what makes the most sense or do we just stay here because we have a low mortgage and

and he gets a job out here. He can still run the business over there if he puts a manager in place, and then I'm going to obviously get a side hustle. Woo! There's more to it, trust me. I know. It's a lot. Can I distill down what you said, and I want to make sure I heard you right. Right. The options are get the family back together, get some peace in your life, clear all of your debts. Yeah.

Yeah. And have a little bit higher monthly payment on your rent or keep the family divided up. Keep your husband flying back and forth because you all have convinced yourself there's only one option. It's in Vegas. There's no other jobs in San Diego. We're going back and forth for a low mortgage payment. Right. In my head, this is as close to a no brainer as I've ever heard. Yeah.

It sounds like if I read between all of the lines, you had a picture of what your life was going to look like in this perfect house, in this perfect neighborhood, with your perfect little girls and your perfect husband and your perfect new business. And you haven't fully let that thing go yet. No, you're totally right. I'm saying this. I'm not smiling. So I'm being serious, but it's going to sound silly. I think you and your husband need to...

Either write a letter together to the life y'all thought you were going to live and read it to each other and have some sort of ceremony or funeral for what was or draw a picture and put it in a fireplace. You have to sever ties with this dream, this picture you had. You've already had a picture of your three daughters married at Thanksgiving at a table in that house you're in right now, right? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's literally like of all, like I don't know, we lived in Vegas for a long time. So coming here, it was like moving to Pleasantville, you know, the neighbor is great. Kids are on the block. The kids walk to school. It's just such a, it's such a great situation, but financially it's just like, it's almost like living here. We have this really low mortgage and monthly expenses, but it's almost having a abusive relationship where, you know, we can't get,

beat up and keep streaming flowers back, you know, saying it's okay. So we're at the point where we're like, we listed the house for sale. We just got an offer. So we're looking at it and we're like, Oh, $460,000 is a lot of money. And we could pay off the debt that we do have. And then, yeah, we're paying a higher monthly mortgage or payment on a rent, but it's, it's that whole like paying that much in rent is what's,

really hanging us up. I don't think that's what it is. I don't think that's what it is. Tell me I'm wrong. I don't think you want to move back to Vegas. You're right. Okay. Then you need to say that on the table and your husband has some big fantasy dream about rebuilding what he had in Vegas. And he's still trying to fight. He's the boxer that got knocked out for the last time during COVID and he can't let it go. And so he's the 48 year old boxer who keeps taking pro fights. Yeah. How much debt are you guys in total?

Total with their house or without? Without the house. Okay. So let's just say we have a $40,000 car payment. He has a lease on his truck, which we never had debt before, by the way. This is all new. And then I have about $15,000 in credit cards and then a $15,000 personal loan.

And you're proud of your low mortgage because that's the saving grace in all of this. You told us you're financially strapped. It's so hard to wrap our minds around like, oh my God. None of this matters. None of this matters. You don't want to live in Las Vegas again.

I don't know what it was about your life back then that you didn't like. Maybe you didn't like how he was in Vegas. You didn't like the heat. You didn't like the dirt. You didn't like the community, whatever it was. None of it's all okay. But you have to have the courage in your marriage to say, I don't want to live in Las Vegas. Every time a couple backs themselves into an either or situation, here's your homework assignment. Cause here's what happens. You have falsely trapped yourselves.

And you're either about to sell a house in a community that you love because your husband won't look for a job in San Diego, or you're about to move to a place that is going to make you miserable. And you're going to become somebody you don't want to be. We both don't really want to move back, but we just kind of feel like, and he's willing to, out here, he even says, like, I'll get a job, da-da-da-da-da. What does he make from this business? It's not enough. Yeah.

So what happened to this opportunity? When you said he had an opportunity to buy this business. He bought the business with a partner. And so he's taking a salary right now, but they're growing it. They have a loan on it. So before, you know, they have to pay off that loan before they can really bring in. How much is the loan on the business? 1.9. What's the business? It's a gym. So he's stuck. What's he going to do? The partner can't buy him out of this.

No. And he signed the dotted line with his personal name for that $1.9 million loan for what salary? How much is he getting paid? Well, right now he's one of those people that he'd rather take less to pay their loan down quickly. So he keeps taking home $80,000 before taxes. And how much do you make? Last year I made $90,000, but this year I'm getting crushed. What does this business make per month?

Oh, I'd have to really look into it, but I think he's got several locations. I think one of the locations makes like $250 after expenses. The other one makes $350 after expenses. A month? And then, yeah, a year. A year? So we're never going to pay off $2 million of debt. Yeah. And is his salary and his partner's salary rolled into that expense? Yes. His partner's not taking a salary. Okay.

So if they took all combined, what is that, $600,000, they could have the business paid off in about three years. Yeah. But they won't. Because the note was for six years. So he was like, if we come back to Vegas and we grow this thing, we could pay it off quicker. You're not. The UFC runs gyms in Vegas. Everyone runs gyms in Vegas.

Yeah. And I'm not saying it's bad. I mean, start your business, do your thing. I agree with, I mean, I'm all for starting businesses. I love it. I love it. I love it. But now you're on the hook for $1.9 million. Yeah. You buried the lead there. It's going to be hard to just be like, well, just get a job here. And then what? Or maybe you say, Hey, I'll move to Vegas for two years while we try to pay this. Every penny is going to pay this, this note off. We're going to sell these gyms and then we're going to decide where we actually want to live.

But yeah, I mean, George, as far as I'm hearing, man, keeping my family together is as high a priority as I can place. And it's, God help me, it's more important than I got a good mortgage rate. Oh my goodness. And I'd probably look at selling the car, doing an early buyout for this truck lease. I mean, you guys would profit off your lifestyle. And next time you hear the word opportunity, just know that's translation for I'm about to do something real stupid. Talk me off the ledge.

Hey, you guys. I was shocked to learn that 88% of you out there are sharing the Ramsey Show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsey 101 YouTube playlist, a

a quick start collection of how to get started walking the Ramsey Plan. Now, this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't know where to start. So here's what's inside. What the baby steps are and why they actually work, how the debt snowball helps you pay off debt fast, and how to build wealth and invest for the future, and so much more.

So here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes. It'll take you straight to the YouTube playlist. Copy it. Text it. Send it in a group chat. Just say, hey, I thought this might help. Because one playlist shared at the right time could be the turning point. One share. One playlist.

One step could change everything for that one person in your life. So click the link, share The Ramsey Show, and let's help someone out there start winning with money.