Push Through Your Financial Setbacks—Don’t Surrender to Them
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From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by the best co-host a guy could ask for, Rachel Cruz. Also, my co-host on our other show, Smart Money Happy Hour, is joining me. And we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. You call us. We'll attempt to give you the right next step for your life.

and your money. Zach has chosen to do that out in Salt Lake City. What's going on, Zach? Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi. Yeah, so I find myself kind of in a little bit of a pickle here. So long story short, I've been in Step 2 for the past few years now with me and my wife. We're about $400,000 in debt.

between our mortgage and a few other things. The issue comes where I've tried for the past couple of years to

work with my wife and create a budget that we can stay in. But inevitably, every month, we're over budget, leading to us not really being able to pay anything down. We kind of stay stagnant as far as the amount of debt that we're in. I mean, we've been to marriage counseling and talked to various people about this, including, you know,

and, you know, the counselors themselves. What was the reason for the marriage counseling? It wasn't about the budget. There was other things going on, it sounds like. There were some other things at times. We've been married for 10 years. We have four kids. And we've had some ups and downs, but in general, we're pretty good. But money was one of the big things for me. It stresses me out.

Like I constantly am stressed about money all the time. It's one of the biggest things that we have arguments about, unfortunately. So what's causing you guys to go over each month? What are the reasons? Yeah.

Just spending. But is your budget unreasonable? Like, are you saying, hey, we're going to spend 200 bucks on groceries, but every month it's 600, where you need to just adjust it to reality? Or do you think, hey, we are just not really even looking at the budget. We're not tracking transactions properly.

I try to track the transactions. I even use the EveryDollar app. I switched over to it from the Mint app, actually, when that closed down. But the grocery slash miscellaneous clothing budget, that kind of stuff, I have two grand set aside for that. And we go over it.

Every month, like sometimes by thousands of dollars. And a lot of the purchases, like my wife justifies as necessary because, oh, the kids need this. We need this. I'm not spending it on myself. I'm spending it on the kids. I'm spending it on the house. I'm spending it on all these things. And I look at it and I'm like, did we really need this? And that is what inevitably ends up in an argument is, well, no.

She don't need these things in my mind, but in her mind we do, and she's not spending it on herself. So, yeah, it goes in circles. Do you guys, Zach? Yeah, so what I think the problem is overall is that it sounds like you guys are not on the same page. I mean, you're like, I have every dollar. I'm tracking transactions. I'm stressed about money. It's a lot of one-sidedness is what it sounds like.

And my question to you is, have you both sat down multiple times and said, hey, let's create a budget together or even bigger than that, Zach? Like, hey, here's where we want to go financially. Like, here's where we want our family to be in the next five, 10, 15 years. And we dream together. We have goals together. We are doing that. Are you guys? I'm assuming the answer is no. No.

We have sat down and done that before. Okay. We have, multiple times. The problem arises that, I will mention that this does play a part in it. She does have anxiety and depression on her own that she's getting treatment for, but a lot of times she emotionally spends or...

Or when she's feeling down, she'll go and spend money. And then she justifies it after the fact. But we sat down and said, hey, because we want to move, for example. We want to get into, like we live in a townhome now. We want an actual home eventually, a house that we can, our kids can play in the yard and have fun and grow and whatever. And that's a goal we both have. And we've talked about it. Like this is where we want to be in five or ten years. But the little actions don't,

lead to anything or they don't lead in that direction and I talk to her about it multiple like two or three times a month I sit down like hey this isn't good we're not heading in the right direction this is where you want to be this is where we want to be you know in five or ten years and then it's like that just goes in one ear out the other she agrees in the moment but then the actions don't line up and then she'll beat herself over it

Later down. Sure. I'm so sorry. Whatever the mentality starts to come out and it gets really hard to have a conversation about it. Right. Totally. Yeah. So I think the way I would start approaching it, Zach is less.

here's what you're doing. You're overspending. You're not online with our goals. You're doing, you know, it's, it's a lot of you, you, you to her versus approaching the conversation with, I mean, have you gone to her and just the agony of how much this is stressing you out? Have you been honest with her completely about the weight that you feel like you're carrying and not about her actions, but about what you're feeling?

Yes, to the point that I've actually had to seek out counseling for my own anxiety because it stressed myself out. She's encouraged me to go, but that doesn't solve the root problem, the fact that we have more budget every month. And it's a struggle because I thought maybe we just need to – like I've tried the envelope method with cash, and that doesn't seem to work. Yeah.

I don't know. I've been tempted to just completely separate...

our finances entirely and just say, hey, here's a card. And once it's used up, we can't like a separate checking account. Yeah, I hear what you're saying and I get how you will get there. But also I think that's a bandaid on these bigger issues that's happening within hers, what it's sounding like. And usually I feel like we can kind of play both sides of the aisle on these calls. But from what you're telling us, Zach, is it does sound like there is

something within her, right, that she's finding her security, she's finding a level of medicating through spending is kind of what it sounds like. But you said, and she is struggling with some depression and anxiety. And is she an ongoing help for that? Yes. She's been an ongoing help for that. She's been getting counseling for...

Seven, eight years for that, the majority of our marriage. I think at this point, Zach, we just need to set up guardrails and the conversation instead of attacking her might be, hey, can I help you set up some guardrails so that we can stay on track this month and accomplish our goals? And that might mean, hey, we remove the debit card info. We get rid of Amazon Prime, start to figure out where the overspending is happening and add friction back in.

with ongoing counseling and ongoing conversations. Yeah, I think there's bigger things happening, Zach, in your marriage between you guys, and it's coming out as money for sure, but I think the root cause is something much deeper. And so you guys concentrating and working on that, and in the meantime, setting up some of these tactical friction points for her would be helpful. But yeah, there's some deeper things there for sure, Zach, that I would get to the root of if I were you guys. ♪

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Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call today. Sure. How can we help? Oh boy. So I have a kind of complex situation, but I'll start with basics. My husband and I only have one remaining debt, but we're kind of lost as to what the next steps are because I have a lot of medical issues that prevent me from working. I've had a really hard time finding something I can do from home. And

And we want to be able to save for our future and start saving, you know, investing in our retirement. And we're just kind of stuck because of the situation that we found ourselves in. So I was really hoping that you guys could kind of give us some guidance about what the next the right next step would be. Yeah. What's going on health wise for you? So I was just diagnosed with neuropathy in my legs and my feet.

Wow.

So I'm legally blind in one, and my overall vision is just very degraded. I tell people it's like watching a black and white movie in color. So I can't drive, and it's very difficult for me to stand or walk for long periods of time. Okay. So I've been looking...

Ever since we got married, we just had our second anniversary last Monday. And I've been looking ever since we got married for something that I could do from home, you know, a side hustle, something part-time, even something full-time. And I counted last night. I was up half the night just going over all of everything that was bothering me. And that's why I called today, actually. And it was...

I think I counted somewhere between 400 and 450 applications between networking, online, things like Indeed and ZipRecruiter, and in-person things I've tried over the last couple of years. And I've had one interview. And they really, really liked me, but I didn't get hired. What kind of role was that?

So I was a medical receptionist for three years before I had to quit working full time. Okay. It sounds like the type of work you'd be able to do from home would require mostly phone if it's difficult to look. I assume it's difficult to look at screens all day.

No, actually, I Twitch stream right now because I don't know what else to do with my life. Oh, wow. So screens are no issue. No, screens are not an issue as long as they have like blue screen protectors and stuff like that. Have you have you applied for like screen?

Personal assistant type roles, administrative roles, all of that. Administrative assistant, personal assistant, data entry, you name it. I actually even went through a seminar for you guys' financial coach master training. I had to turn that down too because we couldn't afford it. What's left on your debt?

So it's just my husband's student loans from college. He has just over $30,000 left in that. And what does he make? $66,000 gross. And after... Let me see. Because certain things come out of his pay before we even get his paycheck. So our HSA and his 401k and our medical dental vision insurance all come out before his paycheck. So...

Can I free you? You'll get some money back if he just pauses investing right now. That's true. Including the HSA contributions. Do you guys need that to cover medical care? Yes, that's what's paying our medical bills right now is what's going into the HSA because the company matches that. Okay. So how much is he investing in the 401k?

Oh, I actually don't know. He's actually working from home today. Let me see if he knows. I'm just saying that number will now be back in your budget every month to help you pay off this debt faster. And is he able to work any overtime or any side hustles? Right now? I love that he's like, let's get him on the line. This is great. We love this moment. Yeah, well, he works from home two days a week. So he just happens to be home today. He thinks it's 3%. Okay. Okay.

And then his company matches that 3%. Is that right, hon? Okay. Yeah, he's nodding yes with me. So, Carrie, I think for me, the biggest question I have is all these applications that you have put out into the world, 400 or so. I really am a little perplexed as to are they, do you think, more advanced positions than what they see you as qualified for? Like, have you gone more entry level positions?

Because I mean, because we've talked to many people. Okay. Yeah. Tell us. So I only have 25 college hours. I don't have a degree. I went straight into the workforce because I didn't know. I did one year of college and then we moved. My family moved.

We used to live a little further south of the DFW Metroplex. And so when we moved up here, I paused my college to help my mom get our house set up. But are these jobs requiring a degree in the application? A lot of them are, yes. A lot of them are. So those you couldn't even apply for because you don't qualify. Exactly. So I've only been looking at ones that only require a high school diploma. What about customer service roles?

I've definitely looked into that as well. The only problem is, is that right now a lot of customer service positions are requiring you to not love it. So many companies are trying to pull people back into the office instead of staying at home.

I have not heard that as far as customer service goes. Here in Texas, it's really, really bad. The other problem is that I'm not bilingual. And a lot of positions here in the DFW area, especially work... Well, it may not be a company. Well, I would...

be looking outside of that. If it's remote, then companies all over the country would be able to hire you. Right, right. So the only problem is that a lot of companies require you to live in certain states because they only serve those states. So I've only been able to look at the ones that... I've not heard this either. I know, I know. Dude, it's been a ride. So I've only been able to look at the ones that say you can live in Texas for this role, which has been about half of the ones I've looked at on average. Wow.

Okay. You're going to have to continue the search, get creative. I would be posting on your personal social pages and LinkedIn and reaching out to friends, texting people and asking how their specific roles. That's what I've been doing for two years. And I know a lot of people in the area. You know, I know a lot of people and with a lot of good connections and they just haven't been able to find me anything. Um,

Because a lot of stuff, what I've been told by a couple of different employers that did look at me was basically I'm too qualified for a lot of the entry level things and I'm not qualified enough for anything higher up. I'm in that really weird in-between section where no one wants to take a look at me because I'm in between. What would it take for you to finish your college hours online for a community college?

So we can't afford what that would cost us right now. I'm saying community college. So we had a local community college that I was going to when I started working. It would, for me to take even part-time classes, it would take...

I want to say at least 500 a month to do that. And I've applied for like scholarships and stuff. And they, they keep telling us I don't qualify for financial aid because we make too much money and I don't qualify for anything but academic scholarships. And generally those range from anywhere to 500 to a thousand. They, they, they might cover like one or two semesters. Okay. So, I mean, I mean, so what we've heard is,

Carrie, which I understand from a medical standpoint, like you've gone through a lot. Like it's very, I can only imagine what you're living. You know, it's so difficult, but it does feel like every question we asked, there was always a reason of why it's not working. So we need to be shifting our perspective. And I mean, you could go online and be a secret shopper and get paid 20 bucks an hour. Do that.

Like, have a goal just to make $300 a month. Like, right? I mean, like, go, like, very basic. You need a little confidence booster, Carrie, and a little pep in your step that I can do this. I can do this. Yes, a little persistence, a little creativity. Yes, and I understand that it is so hard and so difficult for sure. But, man, I just know, George, we have people on this show, and they're –

19 years old and they're making $200,000 because they're coders. They got creative. It's stuff that you're like, wait, what? So there's things out there, Carrie, and I just want you to have a little bit more of some rose-colored glasses and a little bit more confidence as you go into this stuff because there are roles out there and I bet you can find them.

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of any national grocery store. So beautiful. Okay, so stop paying more and start shopping at Aldi. Find a store near you today at aldi.us. That's A-L-D-I dot U-S. Mercedes is up next in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Mercedes, welcome to the show. How can we help?

Hello. So back in 2023, summer 2023, my husband and I purchased a home. And I feel like that was like the first moment of like kind of going more off the Ramsey plan. And so now it's just like.

The taxes went up a little bit, and so it's like 42% of our take-home pay. Oh, my gosh. And I know luckily we don't have any other debt, you know, so there's that. But, yeah, I really want to sell it. I just feel, like, so stressed and, like, financially insecure all the time.

And I feel like that's what you guys are going to say. So I guess I'm just looking for confirmation that I'm not crazy. Well, let's look at all the solutions first. Selling a house is one of the biggest financial moves you'll make aside from buying one. And so I'd never jump to that conclusion. And at 42% take-home pay, yes, it's bad, but nothing's on fire here. Now, you guys don't have any debt. So the question is, do you have a fully funded emergency fund?

No, we don't have that either. Okay. We're kind of working on that now. How much do you have in savings? Right now, about like $8,000 or so. Okay. And how much margin do you have right now, aside from all of your bills and insurance, how much money do you have left over? Like to save? Yeah. Depending on the month, like in overtime and everything, maybe like a couple hundred to a thousand. Okay. But that's with overtime? Yeah.

Well, yeah, without overtime, it's closer to a couple hundred. And then like if we happen to work overtime, it might be like a thousand. And that, are you guys doing any investing right now? I think we just both have like our, just our basic 401k match at this point. Okay. So you're doing a lot at once and that's okay, but it's not the Ramsey plan. Like you said, you kind of went off the reservation a little bit. And what does your husband think? I'm guessing he's saying, no, we're not going to sell it. That's a crazy idea.

Yeah, he thinks that everything's fine, I guess. Okay. He doesn't feel stressed. No. So what exactly is stressing you out right now? I don't think it's a percentage number.

It's not the percentage number. It's how tight everything feels. It's how much we have to like think really hard over like a decision. And I just feel like we came from a more expensive area, but I feel like here we definitely could have purchased a more affordable house or, you know, could have done some things differently. Yeah. How much is your payment per month? Your mortgage payment? Like $2,500 around there. Okay. Yeah.

So, yeah, so automatically, if you did the 20%, for instance, you would have, yeah, close to a thousand, a little bit more, just back in your pocket, 1200 bucks. And you feel like with that, does that give you complete security? Like if you had an extra $1,200 a month, would you say Mercedes, like, okay, now we don't have to pinch every penny? Like, is that enough for you? Or do you think, golly, I think we'd probably need a little bit more even beyond that? Yeah.

I think we could be okay with that and having our emergency fund fully funded. But we'd also get there a lot faster if we had to save, I mean, not quite half as much because we have other expenses that might be a little bit more fixed than mortgage, but maybe 30% less at least.

Yeah. Okay. Here would be my solution. I would give this thing six to 12 months to see if we can up our income to where that lowers the amount of take-home pay is being eaten up by this mortgage. And by income, I would say your primary income, not to work extra. You're not

We need sustainability here. Yeah, you don't want to be working overtime to try to get this percentage down, but just from your jobs. That's what we're doing. So do you see anything changing in the next 12 months for you guys, job-wise, that will create some increase? I do. I've been working.

Yeah, my husband's been working super hard at his job. And like, I feel like he's, he's been there for a couple of years since maybe right before we got the house. And I feel like he's starting to get noticed. He had like a promising interview, but it was just an interview, you know? But I mean, I think just he's heading in the right direction. Like he's starting to be like told to apply for roles. And so I think maybe there's promise there. He's definitely always like spoken of in high regard at his job. And then for me, I definitely,

I definitely can keep looking for stuff. I did just like get, I'm getting my resume redone. Are you working? Mercedes? Yeah, I work too. Oh, you do work. Okay. Okay. Okay. Sorry. Just making sure. What are you making? It's okay. Um, I make about like 50,000 before overtime, like gross. Okay.

And he's making, what, $75, $85? Probably, like, closer. He's probably, like, around, like, $60. Okay, I don't know. Hourly, I'm at, like, $23, and he's at, like, $29. Okay. So, an hour. That helps. Yeah, so you guys are making six figures as a couple. Mm-hmm. But you're at $2,500. Yes, it's high, but I don't think this is as on fire as you think it is. Yeah. So I'm not here to side with your husband. I do think that he should be more concerned. Yeah.

So I think we should meet in the middle and go, hey, we need to develop a plan to get this income up, get this emergency fund funded. And that means pausing investing for a season. Yes, you'll miss the match, but you're going to have some peace back in your life when you have 15 or 20K sitting in that savings account.

and we're getting our income up at the same time so that this $2,500 is just a smaller part of our world. Because if you can have your take-home pay be $10,000, and when we talk about the mortgage parameter, we're saying after taxes but before other deductions, like your healthcare premiums, your 401K, that will affect your math in a good way. So you may want to recalculate to give yourself some peace right now. Okay, yeah. Yeah. And I don't want to rag on my husband. He has always been, we need to get better jobs, we need to make more money, you know.

Yeah, and I think I see that as the solution, and a realistic one, too. I think you guys can...

can get better paying jobs. I mean, honestly, I think whether it's through raises and moving up within the companies, but I do see a track for you guys that you probably will be making more, which will lower that percentage. I said to 20, I meant to 25 earlier, but, but yeah, I'm with George. It's not, it's not on fire right now, but you also don't want to live like this for the next five years of your life either. So something, something starts, something needs to be giving, given, you know, in the next, yes, six to six to 12 months, right?

And I think that'll give you some hope and some peace for sure. But I get it. And it's hard too when you're, you know, you're making, you know, good money. I mean, that's great. I mean, you guys are at like $110,000 a year. And it's frustrating when you feel like I still have to pinch pennies and still think through things that should just be automatic and they're not. So...

Um, there's a reality to, to life in numbers that I feel like is always kind of a hard pill to swallow, but it is, that's the reality of it. So I don't think that that's not, that's not going to go away. Um,

you know, forever. I feel like regardless of your income, you need to be thinking through purchases and you may not have the stress on it, but that doesn't completely go away. And we talk a lot about how we want homeownership to be a blessing and not a burden. And this is what we're talking about. If you don't have an emergency fund and you jump into homeownership and you're going, well, it's better than renting. I don't want to throw money away on rent. This is where you can end up with too much of your take-home pay being eaten up by this mortgage.

on top of repairs and maintenance and increasing property taxes and insurance, and that can leave people in a real bind. And so what that means is we might have to pause. We might need to buy a home in a different neighborhood. We might need to get a townhome for now instead of the single-family home, save up a bigger down payment. And so I don't like for anyone to rush into homeownership thinking it's going to solve their problems. It will only create more problems.

And I say that as someone who loves homeownership. I think everyone should be a homeowner at some point in their life, and the earlier the better, but there's a right time to do it. And that's when you're out of all consumer debt, which our friend Mercedes was. Good on her. Fully funded emergency fund. That's three to six months of expenses and a healthy down payment.

Right, right. Well, and she said it earlier. And I think this is this can be the attitude sometimes when you go into homeownership, especially your first home.

She's like, looking back, hindsight, we probably could have probably bought something a little bit smaller. You know what I mean? She made the comment of like, oh, we probably could have. And what's difficult is when you go to the bank –

to pull your loan. They will lend you monopoly money. They will give you so much and you think, what? Oh my gosh. Thank you for believing in me, bank. Unbelievable bank. I'm so great. I'm so good at this. And then you take all that money that they're going to loan you and go get a house off that. And no, you need your own parameters. And the Ramsey way is more conservative with homeownership. Our numbers are...

But it's so that you have more margin to do other things like giving and investing and all of this and living life. So you're not having to think twice about all these like small purchases. I feel like it should be a given. So remember, just because the bank is going to offer you a certain loan amount, don't suddenly get like stars in your eyes thinking, oh, my gosh, this is what we can do. We can buy way more house than we thought. Thanks, bank. Yes. No, thank you.

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All right. Shelby is in Dallas, Texas up next. What's going on, Shelby? Hi. I was just wondering, I've been dating my boyfriend for about a year now, and we're starting to talk about marriage. He's Australian-born.

And basically, we were talking about finances, and he would want to keep them completely separate. He earns a little over double what I earn. He just bought his first house as well. And it concerns me. He also mentioned maybe wanting me to sign a prenup. And I just feel not secure maybe marrying and having kids with somebody who feels finances should be 100% separate. So...

I was kind of wondering what y'all's thoughts are, if you had any advice for me on this topic, basically moving forward. Yeah. Did he give you reasons why he wants to keep it separate? Is it because of the amount he earns? Is it something that happens in his past, his parents? Like, did he give you reasons why? Yeah.

Yeah, pretty vague. His parents did get divorced, but on fairly good terms. I think the income disparity is a bit of an issue for him, which I do not understand. But I think mainly he just wants to feel that he's in control of the money that he's

He's earned, we were talking about it last night actually, and he was saying, well, I don't believe that it would be our money if we were married. What I earn is like my money. So it would be his house, his money, and you just get the privilege of living there at a discounted rate? Is that what this future looks like? Basically, I don't think he sees it that way, but yeah, that's kind of what he's saying. It sounds like he wants to be single.

No. He wants the benefits of the relationship. He loves her. But he doesn't want the commitment of a relationship. Commitments from a financial standpoint, which means is an indicator of what you're getting at, George. An indicator of...

I want to keep parts of myself to me and you keep you over there. And I want it nice and tidy. And I want to enter into a lifelong relationship with you, which is not realistic. Like this tidiness and this like, I'm here, you're there. And this feels good. Like, no, you guys are about to share a bed. You're going to have kids and share genetics that are running around in front of you. Like you're sharing every other part of your life.

And yet you have to Venmo him for Outback Steakhouse?

That's what the future is. I mean, that's what it sounds like. Yeah, because I was saying, well, maybe we could have a joint account and agree upon a percentage of our checks that we put into separate discretionary spending. Yeah. So the red flag to me, the big overarching is that if you want to keep yourself from me, and you are financially when he's living like this, there's going to be other parts of our marriage that are going to be in that exact same formula. Yeah.

Because that's your mindset. You can't go into a marriage and say, I want this part for me, this part for you. Kids, yeah, sure, we'll share together. Calendars, no, I'll go do my thing. You can't live your life like that in a marriage. Well, you can't live your life like that in a, I would say, a healthy, well-connected

Because the healthiest marriages that we see are ones that people say, I do to you for the rest of my life. And I see it as a covenant. I see it as something bigger than me. And we're entering into this and every part of part of our lives we're combining. And that doesn't mean that you're not still Shelby and he's not still him. And he, you know, he has his quirks with money and, you know, he loves the budget and you don't like, there's still going to be opposites. You're still going to have your natural tendencies. But to say that I'm going to block you from a part of me,

To keep me in control over here, that's saying a lot about someone. It really is. And a lot of people disagree with this advice. If you called another money show, they probably wouldn't be as bothered as we are. But we see this as a reflection of the person more so than just the reflection of the bank account. I've rarely seen a thriving marriage with total unity and love long term that lives this way.

It's just too hard because it turns into resentment and scorekeeping of, well, I covered this bill last time. And, well, I make half as much, so I should only cover half as much of the bills. It just becomes tit for tat. And that's just not a way to live your life. It's a business relationship, not a romantic, you know what I mean? Not a partnership. And it causes financial infidelity down the line because you have no say or transparency into what he's doing with money.

Mm hmm.

And so getting to the root of that fear and overcoming it over time with lots of conversations, maybe some counseling and realizing that one day you might not have an income at all. What if you stay home with the kids? What happens then? Do you get an allowance? Yeah.

He said in that case, he'd be willing to reconsider and combine things for that amount of time. But I just, the whole thing makes me feel like not safe. Yes, yes. No, I... I would charge him rent for the nine months that that baby is housed inside of you. To go, well, a thousand bucks a month, nine months, that's nine grand you owe me. Is he bringing in a lot of money?

Does he have millions of dollars in an account that he's bringing in? No. The issue is just really that I'm not earning enough right now. I'm making about $30, which is not good. And he's making about $85. Okay. All right. Hold on. Can we? Hold on. I thought this guy was like a multimillionaire. Shelby, I thought he was making like $400. I thought he was a surgeon. I thought he was making half a million to $600. And you're like, I'm making $150. I don't know.

He's making $85,000. I'm sorry. Get off your high horse. I can't. Oh, I can't. Is this? I can't. Listen, it takes a lot to tick off Rachel and he done ticked her off. Well, I'm like, I'm sorry. Your little ego is so inflated at 85. Like 85 is great. Listen, it's great. Hey, babe, let me handle it. I'm the breadwinner here. I know. I know.

You're not even making six figures, dude. What happens if you make more than him? Then do you get control of the board? That's been a lot of my issue because I've told him, you know, if this is how we entered a marriage, at some point,

because of some other circumstances I could see maybe in the future, I may earn more. His job is very physical. If he loses it, that's kind of, it's a big, it's going to be an issue. And if I do earn more later on and you have an issue, I'm going to feel like, well, I hope you figure it out. Cause that's how you treated me. And that's not the mindset I'm wanting. And you're already going into scorekeeping, like even that scenario, you're not even married yet. You know what I mean? It's like, it's yeah. So yeah, Shelby, I,

And again, I don't want to paint him like he's a bad guy. I think you're right, George. I think it's just all he knows. It's all he's aware of. But I mean, that gets down to a deal breaker for me. Because I just can't even imagine. I can't imagine Winston...

I couldn't imagine playing that through in a scenario. Well, I made more this month, so I get control of the board for this month. Because I'll be honest, too. I get to do what I want to do. Prenups and stuff. I mean, Shelby, I've even, from my own just personal opinion, I've gotten even more lenient with those. I used to be so anti them. But we've seen so many situations, you know, and that's why I asked, is he bringing in a lot? Like,

You know, I mean, I've had friends I've gotten screwed with stuff. Like, I mean, just I get it. I get that there's a lot of pain and there's parts of like, hey, let's I want to be wise about this because I, you know, I get it. I can have a conversation around that.

But not at 85 with not like something really big that you're bringing in. Like to me, I don't know if it's ego. Fear, George, is maybe what it is. I don't know. But I, yeah, that's just, it just doesn't set you up well, Shelby. What I wouldn't do is just look right past it and go, oh, well, maybe it'll solve itself once we're married. Yeah. And you're not because your gut's telling you something, Shelby. You said that. You're like, it makes me feel like, oh, because it is. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. It's not like Jeff Bezos. You know, he got married. Sure, sign a prenup. Sure. I'm sure there was a prenup involved there. Sign the prenup for Jeff, you know? But I don't know. Yeah, Shelby, I'm sorry. I would keep, if you love him, keep pressing in on it. I mean, you know, let this be a...

a good kind of litmus test to the relationship and how much your opinion matters. And if you, and if he values your opinion enough to learn from you even right. Is there that humility there? So let this kind of be a litmus test of you guys talking through it, but that, that would be hard. And guys take note. All she wants is a joint account. Okay. It's not that hard. We could all be married and happy by now instead of just being

Closing our fists and going, it's mine. All the jewels are mine. It's no way to live. It's no way to live.

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From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality George Campbell, joined by my co-host Rachel Cruz, best-selling author and host of The Rachel Cruz Show. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. And Taylor's up first in Chicago. What's going on, Taylor? Hi, how are you? Great, how are you?

Oh, I'm good. So my question is, should I sell my house or borrow against it for my child's medical needs? Is there option C? For me, no. Okay, walk us through this. What are the medical needs and what will it cost? Well, my son has some mental health issues.

And it will cost for quality health care, mental health care, around $60,000. How much? $60,000. $60,000? And over what course of time? 60 to 90 days. Wow. Wait, is it a treatment facility? Yes. Okay. Yes, a treatment facility. Okay. Is it...

addiction type or um um it is um suicidal schizophrenia schizophrenia okay okay okay oh i'm so sorry you're dealing with this how old is he um he's 22 22 22 does he live with you yes okay and is this an outpatient type facility that you're looking into

No, it's inpatient. Impatient. Okay. And how was this place recommended to you through like one of his maybe therapists or psychiatrists? No, nothing has been recommended to me. It's just all research I've done on my own. Okay. Okay.

And is he in medical, under the care of a medical professional right now? Up until a couple months ago, he was on state-funded medical insurance, but they cut him off a couple months ago. Okay. Why was that? Because they said I made too much money. How much do you make? $19 an hour. And that's too much money for state-funded care?

Because you're not at the poverty line, essentially? In Illinois, yes. What other debts do you have? Well, I owe back taxes for last year. I hired one of those tax attorneys to...

delete the debt. However, it was just put on hold. So taxes for last year and then I didn't file this year because I don't receive like I pay everything. I don't receive like any food stamps or anything like that besides receiving the medical. But so the only way for me to maintain my bills and food was to file all my exemptions.

So at the end of the year, I end up owing taxes that I can't afford. So the back taxes is everything you owe, you don't have any other debt? Car loans, credit cards, medical debt? I don't have any. I have a car loan, no credit cards, nothing.

Student loans. That's it. My debt is minimal, but my income is even more extreme minimal. Yeah. What do you do for a living? Right now, I just work in a factory. Okay. What is your son doing during the day?

Unmedicated. He is usually having what we call a bad day. He usually hears voices. Is it just you two in the home? Is there anyone else involved here? Other family? No, I have a daughter. She's 19. Okay. And is she in the home as well? Yes. What does ongoing care look like outside of this inpatient treatment?

Outside of the inpatient, continued therapy and I'm sure medication. Okay. I had a father who was also schizophrenic. Hmm.

And so, but I'm willing to sell my house or whatever for his care because at some point you have to break the cycle. And most of, you know, things that happen with people

with people who suffer from mental illnesses is the lack of quality care. Yeah. And people being able to afford it. And it's very noble as his mother to be willing to do that. My only fear is that you sell this home, cover the care, and now you can't afford rent somewhere. Right now I'm paying rent and a mortgage, two power bills. I mean, I'm behind in those because... Why are you paying both?

Because I rented out my house without protecting myself with a lease, and then the guy moved out. And so for the remainder of my lease, I've been paying the rent and mortgage. So you were renting a different place, and then you subleased it to him, but then he stopped paying, so now it's on you? Well, my house that I own, I rented my house out to someone I know.

Okay, but I'm confused why you're paying rent to yourself if you're the landlord. Am I misunderstanding? You're living somewhere else. Yes, I'm living somewhere else paying rent. Okay, when is that lease up, wherever you're renting? In just two more months. Two more months. Okay, how much are you paying in rent right now? $10.

A thousand dollars in rent and an $800 mortgage. Okay. So the rent will be done because you'll move back into your house. So that's a thousand dollars freed up, which is great. It's just from your overall financial. Okay. Overall financial perspective. Are you behind on the home that you own? No. Okay. But you are behind on rent.

Yes, I'm usually behind two weeks late rent. So I'm caught up for the month, but I don't owe any back months. Okay, I gotcha. And what's left on the car loan and the student loans? Well, I have student loans and my daughter has student loans and that's about $12,000. Are the student loans co-signed for her? Is it like a parent plus loan?

Parent plus loan. And then I have some myself. Okay. Is she working or is she in college? She just graduated and she will pay those herself. Okay, good. I'm just trying to find any way to alleviate you in order to create some margin right now. And what's your car payment every month? $150 and my insurance is $100. Okay. And what's the house worth? Right now it's probably worth $130. Okay.

And what could you sell? I will order you. I want it.

Okay. So Taylor, I, as a mom, I can't, I can't feel you. I can't empathize with your exact situation. But we say all the time, I mean, like your kids are everything, right? And when there's a health issue involved, parent will do anything. I mean, you're like, I will sell my house for it. So the, what I would say before you make any decisions, cause I know you're going to, you're going to help your son is, is I would research. I would keep researching because there is a plethora of, of, of medical care that,

and a spectrum price-wise that is very different. So 60 maybe at the high end, could he get care for 20, right? And there's a path that's more financially stable in that way.

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Sir, did you just call George sir? I feel. How old are you, Carl? That was kind. I'm 17, sir. Someone raised you right. Look at that respect. All right. My question is, so I plan on going to the Navy or airports, ideally Navy. That explains it. There's the manners. Well done. I would like to dream scenario go to the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis. Okay.

If that does not work out, I will do ROTC down in the south and currently run two businesses, you could say. And I'm planning on making around $13,500 this summer. You're breaking up on us, Carl. Speak directly into the phone. Oh, man. Please don't tell me we're losing Carl. No, we're not. We're not. Carl, are you there?

Hello? There we go. Okay. All right. So I'm trying to go to the Naval Academy. If not, do ROTC. Okay. My question is, would it be smart to buy a used Tesla Model Y for around $23,000 using a parent, like my parents buy it. I give them a $10,000 down payment. They pay the rest and I pay them over the course of about a year using my Navy stipend and what I will make with my job.

I just do not know if it would be smart to put me in that position of owing money at such a young age. Easy answer, no. It is not smart, and I'm glad you were thinking through it. What worries you about this? Why do you think it's not smart?

Uh, because college is like where I will go. It's really like tight together. So I could walk. The only issue would be is like, I would be driving a lot going to work. Um, cause I would ideally want to be a land do landscaping, um, which would require me to drive places. I would also have to drive, um, like to my parents' house, et cetera. Um, and they have solar and where I would go, uh, I could charge it for free. Um,

Which would make sense logically, like in terms of electricity. Just, you know, that worry of what if an unexpected thing comes up and I cannot pay for that because I owe my parents money. Okay, you're thinking through it. How much money do you have right now?

I have $4,000 cash. I would save up for about another two more months, pay $10,000 down, maybe more. $10,000 is like the bare minimum. And then they would pay for it, and I would like the difference with their money out of pocket, and then I would pay them back over time. Do they have money? Are your parents pretty well off where they could maybe match whatever you put in?

Yes, sir. So let's say you put in $6,000. Would they be willing to chip in another $6,000 and you pay $12,000 for a cash car? Yes, sir.

That to me, if this is a masterclass in personal finance, this is the number one thing that will make you successful. Stop thinking about how much down, how much a month and just think how much. And if you don't have that amount, you just say no. And that's delayed gratification. Most adults in America today don't have that. But if you can learn it at 17, you're going to be a multimillionaire by the time you're in your 30s. Yeah.

Because most people just collect more payments and go, well, it's normal. I'll put money down. And I would say too, Carl, this is a great place to practice a level of not only living within your means, but a level of contentment. Like, could you go get a $25,000 Tesla? I mean, through what you said, I mean, there's an avenue. You could do it. Or could you drive a, you know, a $5,000, $6,000, $7,000 car? Yeah.

and be good with your lifestyle, right? When you jump lifestyles so quickly, Larry Burkett, this is an old quote, used to say that we spend the first five to seven years of our marriages trying to obtain the same level of lifestyle our parents did, but it took our parents 30 years to get there. And so this idea that we all of a sudden want to live

a life as if we're a 30 year old, but we are a 17 year old, right? You kind of jump that and doing it creates debt as well. So there's a contentment piece and a math debt piece. And if you can solve both of those, like what George is saying, and learn to be content and good, and also stay away from debt, like your life will look so different in 10 years versus if you went another path.

All right. Yeah, most of my money right now is in stocks and precious metals, just as like a buffer. A lot is in Tesla stock and Palantir, which has done me pretty good. And I just would want to not, well, I really don't want to get in a position of thinking I have money that I don't. It's an overspending and then dig myself into a deep hole because 10 years down the line, I don't want to be,

worrying about where my next bill is going to go and what debt I'm going to have to pay off. I would rather know where I'm going to put it and how that's going to grow and prosper with me. Yeah, you're doing some good things right now. I personally don't have any single stocks or precious metals. I would encourage you to do the same. I just invest in mutual funds, so giant baskets of stocks, because as you know, Elon can burp or leave the White House and your stock goes crashing down and you freak out and sell it at a loss.

And the same with precious metals. You're not really buying anything there. Precious metals don't produce anything. You're just buying a different form of currency that's not really going to go up in value like the stock market will. And it's usually peddled from fear mongers who say, hey, if it all comes crashing down, at least you'll have some gold. And so I would encourage you at this young age, you don't need to live like a boomer buying precious metals because you saw an ad on late night TV. And you also don't need a $23,000 car when you make $13,000. Right.

Got that. So we say that everything with wheels and motors in your life should add up to no more than half of your annual income. So what will you make in the next 12 months? In the next 12 months? So if I keep doing what I'm doing, ideally like $40,000, $40,000 to $60,000, depending on how busy I get. And this is if you join the Navy too? Yeah.

No, so I have another, about another year till I will go. And that would just be working, working like nothing and then saving everything I have because I don't really see a value in putting, buying a bunch of like useful stuff or either just save it for,

when I need it. So just constantly working and then... Yeah, you've got a lot of flux in your life right now. There's a lot of changes happening. And so I would not tie yourself to a payment. I wouldn't tie yourself to a $23,000 car at 17 years old. I would buy however much you can afford in cash. And if that's $5,000, that's your budget. Not long ago, I bought a car for $6,000. And my next car from that was a very, very, very, very old Tesla.

And Rachel has a Tesla, too. We love Teslas. And so don't get us wrong. This is not me trying to dog Tesla. But trying to do it for the gas savings is a pretty insane justification to drive what we all know. I just want to drive a cool car. I know. And I hate for you to do landscaping in a Tesla, you know? Yeah, you're going to destroy that thing. If a piece of grass lands in there, it explodes. You should see three kids in the back of mine. Yeah.

Yeah. Let alone landscaping toys. Cheerios all caked in there nasty. Goldfish crackers. Yeah. I know. So, Carl, I would buy the best car you can get and do a pre-purchase inspection on it. It'll probably cost you $100 no matter what you're buying to make sure that you know what you're getting into and there's not going to be a ton of repairs and stick to reliable brands. Yeah, and Carl,

Carl, I feel like you knew all this too. I mean, you, can I just say as a 17 year old kid, like the conversation we've had with you is more promising than some we've had on the show even today with some adults. I mean, seriously, it's incredible. Like you really are. You're a very forward thinker. You're a problem solver. You've started business. I mean, like it's incredible. And the discipline you have even now

to long within the military route. I'm like all of it. Like, I think like there is so much good coming from you, Carl. So, uh, it's very, it's very impressive. It is very impressive. And I would continue to be curious, continue to learn when it comes to this money stuff, read, uh,

Yeah, I can continue to get some of this knowledge because I mean, some of the decisions you've made, I think, you know, are fine. Like, right. I mean, you're OK. But if you start going down a road, which this Tesla purchase using debt would start to open, that's a new lane in this financial space.

And it's one that we say to steer clear of. And that's your gut, Carl. So trust your gut. You have a smart, you're smart. You have a good head on your shoulders. So trust yourself in this. And remember, wealthy people do really boring things. They save up and pay cash for stuff. They invest in not exciting things, but old mutual funds and their 401ks and their Roth IRAs. Like it's not flashy and exciting, Carl. Okay. But that will build you wealth over time, over a long period of time. So trust your gut.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz, taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Let's get to the question of the day, brought to you by YRefi. You didn't plan to default on your private student loan, but now you could have a way out.

YRefi helps you explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate and a payment plan based on your ability to pay. Take the next step at YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Jamie in Hawaii. My dad passed away earlier this year, and since then the stock market has dropped. My 82-year-old mom is concerned that

Hmm.

So the overall question here is, should your investing change as you head into your final stages of life? So the 80s, 90s. Last decade. Personally, no. I'm going to be staying, stay invested in equities until I pass from this earth. Now, a lot of people move to more conservative investments like bonds. So they might have a split like a 60-40 where 40% is in bonds or 70-30 where 30% is in bonds.

And she's saying the stock market dropped. It's now back up to record highs. I don't know when this question was sent in, but depending on what week you look at, I would not be concerned with temporary drops. And I also don't know what her financial situation is. Does she have money outside of this? How often is she withdrawing? How much is she withdrawing? How big is this total nest egg? A lot of questions here that I would contact a smart investor pro to dig into to give her a plan for the next 10 years. But the short answer is,

we know that if your investments, you know, the rule of 72 would say, if you get a 10% return over a long haul, then every seven years, your investment would double. Yeah. So if she has a million bucks in that nest egg, it's going to be 2 million.

Seven years from now. Right. That's pretty wild. Yeah. So I would not pull the money out out of, you know, fear. Right. Because you could be losing out on that million dollars. Yes. Yeah. And I think that's the that's the case is to understand that this is a long term play and even 10 years. I mean, that's long term. I mean, that's a decade. Right.

that you're looking out for her. And so there's enough room within that for there to be some ups and downs, even to a three, four, five year period of time, usually. So I would go Jamie and I would look and understand the fear drives a lot of people because of that emotion drives a lot of people to make bad financial decisions, especially with the market, they want to end up pulling money out.

And if she's losing money and it's at the bottom and she freaks out and it's the worst time, it is. It is. So you need to be really leaning on facts. And so looking to see, OK, what has what has the history been of the stock market? Where are we today? Where have we been in the last 12 months, 24 months? You know, I mean, you can kind of map it out year by year. But overall, you're going to see that the economy over time continues to go up. It will. There'll be some dips every now and then, but you can't let those dips like you're saying short term go.

create a long-term problem for you for pulling all of your money out. It's always come back. Even after the worst crashes, you look at a year later, two years later, maybe three years later, and the market is back to record highs. Right. So if you're saying she's going to live for at least 10 more years, likely, God willing, and the creek don't rise, I would let it ride and tell her to stop looking at the portfolio and only take as much out as you need and

you don't need to be cashing this whole thing in ever. And so I would not let that be a concern. There is zero chance of her investment going to zero dollars. That would mean we're in an apocalyptic situation where every company in America has gone bankrupt. I think the last thing we'll be concerned about is our 401k balance at that point. So I hope that helps. Yes, Rachel, I will be there too. If Winston will let me in, that's what I'm going to have a friend with a bunker.

I know. I need to get one. We don't have one. I was joking. You're telling me you don't have a bunker. We don't have a bunker. I feel like Winston is prime demo. No, he would like... For having a bunker. Yeah. I know. I know. He would be. No, but he's more like... What about a storm shelter? He's more like live off the land. Like, he could figure it out. If it all went... That's true. Helen and Ham basket. I think Winston... I don't know. I trust my husband. Winston would somehow... I think he could figure... I think we could find water. He...

I think he could beat Katniss Everdeen. I don't know. If this was the Hunger Games, Winston would beat out Katniss. I don't know. But yeah, all I have to say, Jamie, tell your mom.

We'd stay in, but talk to a SmartVestor pro for sure to look at your long-term, what to do, what decisions to make in these next 10 years for her. I know. She could live to be close to 100. I've had a lot of family members and my wife's family. Nana, 96. We celebrated her birthday this weekend. 96. Isn't that crazy? That's amazing. I know. And we had another family member on the cruise with us. Oh, my papaw. He's 96 too. Yes. That's amazing. I know. Wild. Had a good time. All right. Wendy is up next in Boise. What's going on, Wendy?

Yeah. Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, I have a question. My husband and I are 52. We're both entrepreneurs. Um, uh, about two years ago, we sort of had like a panic. Well, it was coming, but I could panic, wake up, call that we weren't invested anywhere for retirement or anything. We started investing a ton of money about, uh, what would you say, honey? Um, no per month. Hi honey. Tell him we said hi. Okay.

Oh, can you... They said hi to you. Basically, at this point today, we've got $100,000 invested, and we are doing about $4,000 a month. His income... The nature of his business is that it's seasonal, and so there'll be ebbs and flows with slower months and then really good months, but on average...

he brings in about around eight grand and I bring in around 5,000. My income comes from a network marketing that work that is just residual income. So, um, I like, I have the ability to continue to work, but we, in the last couple of years, I invested in a, like a,

continuing education, something that was $8,000. And I helped one of my daughters buy a car. So we have $14,000 in debt. We've never carried debt before, but we have it now. But our $4,000 per month investment makes things really tight. So my question for you is, should we invest less for right now and get that debt paid down? Or should we stay the course and just

make more money to get the debt paid down. I mean, you'll be done with this debt in 90 days if you just hunker down, pause investing for 90 days. That's not going to put a big dent in your investments, but it will make a huge impact on your peace and your margin. Okay. Okay. That's what I was wondering. So my husband just popped the head on and said, yeah, he's saying like, just hunker down for the next 90 days, stop investing and get the debt paid off.

Yeah, you said you have $13K in debt, $14K. What do you want to do, Wendy? What does he want to do? I'm curious if you all have conflicting... Well, I think for me, I was more panicked about retirement. Like, all of a sudden, a couple years ago, we have six kids, we have a large family. You know, I don't want to be dependent on anybody, and we've lived a kind of a... You know, being an entrepreneur sometimes is a little...

unpredictable. And so we've had, we've lived a life where we've worked really hard. We've invested a lot. And so all of a sudden I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, if, if this business doesn't last forever, I want to make sure we set ourselves up in a really good place where we can still fly to see our grandkids and, you know, give gifts to everybody and all that kind of stuff. Do you guys have any money saved outside of investments?

Yeah, we usually try to follow that two to three months, but it's kind of gotten eaten up with some debt. And that debt might be $20,000 because with the other business, we kind of hold short term that I try to get paid off every month.

Sometimes I don't have to have, you know, for work or personal. And so it can be 20. But yeah. This might be four or five months of debt pay down of just getting aggressive. Yeah. And then maybe saving up an emergency fund. So maybe another four months of saving. So let's say eight months from now, you're back to investing. You're still going to be OK. I just crunched the numbers for you. My question. OK, that's my question. If I'm more panicked about retirement than he is.

I feel like, oh my gosh, if we stop doing this, we're going to be old and penniless. No, you're fine, Wendy. Here, tell her the... I just popped in some numbers. You told me you're 54? Uh-huh. You have $100,000 saved. 52. Not 100, 120 yet. Oh, 52. Even better. Okay, let's say you don't even start investing again until you're 53. Let's say 53 to age 67. You keep this up, $4,000 a month. Nothing changes. You don't get any raises. You don't make more money. You will have $1.85 million in that one account.

Wow. That's at a 10% rate of return, which is what we've seen over decades in the stock market if you invest in good stock mutual funds. So let that give you some peace. Yes, you're going to be working a little longer, but you'll likely be making more money as time goes on. Yeah, and y'all need to go plug in these numbers and mess with the calculator because, I mean, that's facts. That's what you'll see. And then sit down with...

an investment professional and really map it out. But pay off your debt. Y'all need to pause everything. Pay off the debt. Get some cash buffer in your lives. That's going to create the peace like what George is saying. And then you guys can go full on investing and you're going to be 100% fine. So you're on the right track.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. If you are tired of living paycheck to paycheck, feeling like you can't get ahead, you got to join one of our free every dollar trainings we've got going on every week this month. They're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. So you'll see one of our friendly faces here.

guiding you through how to make stick to a budget and even find $9,000 of margin using EveryDollar so that you can get out of debt and start building wealth. Plus, you can ask us any question during the live Q&A. So sign up for free. EveryDollar.com slash webinar. You got nothing to lose because it costs you nothing but an hour of your time. Don't miss it. Frank is up next in Charleston. How can we help you today, Frank?

How are you guys doing? It's an honor and pleasure to talk to you. Rachel, you've got to give us the top 10 reasons why it's so tough to be a child of Dave Ramsey again. I heard that about 20 years ago. Oh, my gosh. That's when I spoke in high school. Throwback. Wow. Golly, Frank. That's crazy. You must be ancient, Frank. Yeah.

I am. I am. I can get my discounts at Dunkin' Donuts for coffee now. That was like a 2003 time? Yes. Probably right around there. Simpler times. That's crazy. What ails you today, Frank? You've been listening a long time. Have you followed the principles? Yeah, you should be. Why are you calling us, Frank? Uh-oh. What'd you do? So I have a brother-in-law who...

is just a big dumb animal and I love him dearly and he came to me and says hey I got 20 grand I'm gonna put down on a car but I need help obviously I need help and I said you got 20 grand okay fine I'll do it for you so I co-signed for him oh you're big dumb you're big dumb brother-in-law that's what you said yeah you got in the mud with this animal my friend I can't tell the two apart we don't know who's dumb and who's smart I know

And all I can hear in the background when I got done doing this is Dave saying and reciting scripture to me saying, one who signs debt for another is stupid. Yeah, that's right. That's the King James Bible. That sounds like it. I'm like, why did I do this? And hell, not day of God. Yes. God said it. God said it. So now I'm in the process of...

Either just letting this go into a voluntary repossession because I don't need it. I don't want it. And he's going away for a very long time on a vacation, an unwanted vacation. Is he going to prison? Yes, he is. Oh, boy. So anyway, yeah. So now it's an eleven hundred dollar car payment. And goodness gracious, what kind of car was this?

It was a Chrysler, brand new Chrysler 300. Can you sell it? Well, I can sell it. So either way, I can sell it. But right now, the buyout is 62 on it. And to sell it, it's going to be around maybe $50,000.

Is that private party or is that trading? Yeah, that's private party. I listen to your show all the time, George. Okay, so you're going to be – you're 12 underwater. He obviously has no money. He's going to prison. And do you have money? No.

I do, but I don't want to do this. You already did it, my friend. It's just going to add insult to injury. You understand what's going to happen with the repo, right? They're going to sell it at auction for like $15,000 and you're still going to owe the difference.

Yes. It doesn't get you out of it. And so it's going to be even worse if you do the repo. So you might as well control the variables here and sell it for as much as you can and then even take the cash as a stupid tax and go, all right, I owe $12,000 to get this out of my life. That's the only way out of this that is going to leave you with the least amount of harm. Okay. Because it's currently what we owe on it right now to get this up to –

Are you saying that you're behind on payments by $5,000?

Yes. So with penalties and taxes and this and that. So they're going to find this car eventually if I don't come up with it. You're going to have Dog the Bounty Hunter at your door, man. I would not go through with this. This is not the way you want to go, Frank. So do you have five grand to get current on payments?

I do, but my wife won't give it to me. Oh, boy. Does she have control of this money or is she just super angry? No, she's mad at you. She's mad at you. She's like, don't take that out of our... Okay, well, it's going to cost you guys as a family a whole lot more than five grand if you do it the wrong way. And so she's going to be... You're going to be sleeping on the couch. You might as well live in this car at this point.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. That's kind of where we're at right now because, you know, it's kind of the same thing. Did you do it without her, without talking to her? No, I did it with talking to her and she said, don't. Oh, no. And you did it anyways. You know what else Proverbs says? Mm-hmm.

What is it? The woman who could find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above the heart of her husband's safely truster and he will have no lack of gain. Oh, man, Frank. Yeah. Ouch, man. This hurts.

So you got to go to her with all humility and say, I'm sorry. I'll make it up to you. I'm so sorry. But to George's point, for real, for real, Frank, you guys are going to end up paying more if this ends up getting repoed. So it hurts at the front end to pay it all. Get rid of it. Do it. You know, pay the backlog. Sell it. Pay the difference. All of that is going to be so much less painful for

than the dragging through this repossession and then having to end up owing even more on the back end. So go ahead, rip the Band-Aid off. Yeah, they could sell this car for $30,000, and now I'm into it for $30,000. And you'll be lucky if they sell for $30,000. I mean, they're going to sell it for the bottom dollar at auction because they don't give a rip, and they're going to put you on the hook for the difference plus fees. And so I would get current as fast as possible, sell it as fast as possible. How long ago did you co-sign it?

Probably almost a year ago. Okay. Yeah. And I've been trying to get out of it for the past year and a half. You know, he's like, oh, I'm going to get it. I'll get it re, you know, I'll get it in someone else's name or I'll take care of it. I'll get you off this in six months, Frank. No, no worries. Yeah. If a sketchy lender doesn't trust you,

To give you a loan? Maybe you shouldn't trust that person. You know what I mean? So does your brother-in-law have any money that you can get access to? If he's going to prison, he might as well leave you with a parting gift. No. Sounds like he was broke to begin with, though. Yeah, I figured. Yeah, he was. Yeah, he was broke to begin with and just a big mistake. Big mistake. Well, how much money do you have liquid between savings, anything else you could sell?

So it's probably, you know, $10,000 to $12,000. So you don't even have the money to make good on this deal? No, I mean, I don't have the money to... Like you can get current on payments, but you don't have the difference in cash. Yeah.

Yeah, no, I don't have the difference in cash, so it's going to be—well, I might. I've got five closings this week, so— Oh, good. Okay, let's hope that if that doesn't work out, you can go to your local credit union and take out a personal loan for the difference and then clean that up fast.

That's my, that was, I've got an appointment with the credit union tomorrow. Okay, good. I hope they're kind to you and I hope you can clean this mess up and I'm glad you learned the lesson and I hope everyone in America did too. Never co-sign for anything. I never co-sign. I'm going to write, I'm writing that on the back of my truck right there. Don't co-sign for anyone. Never ever. Are you out of debt, Frank?

Outside of this? No, that's another 45-minute conversation. But I've got my notepad here of everything I've got. Man, that Total Money Makeover event you went to in 2003 didn't really stick, did it, Frank? No. Well, it did. It did for a long time. And then, you know, you wander your way back into debt. You can't wander your way out. He knows the quotes. He's quoting them. Yeah.

I've got them all. Believe me, I've got them all. Frank's got the bumper sticker. Oh, Frank. We like you, Frank. You can get back on the horse. We believe in you, Frank. We believe in you.

The number one reason I don't co-sign for anyone, Rachel, I don't know if they're going to be a future criminal. Are they going to be in jail? That's now added to my list of fears. Well, I don't want to hitch my wagon to somebody's death. Unbelievable. I know. All right. Goodness gracious. Everyone will learn from Frank. If you hear smart advice 20 years ago, take it. Take it the first time. And listen to your virtuous wife. That's right. Amen.

These days, the internet is chock full of so-called investing advice from random goobs with zero qualifications. Listen.

Listen, folks, you deserve guidance from someone who knows what the flip they're talking about. That's why I recommend the SmartVestor program. SmartVestors can help you find a professional financial advisor who can teach you to make your own best decisions with your own money. Get connected at RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor.

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From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz as my co-host today, also my co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour, which you can check out on the Ramsey Network or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Tim is going to kick us off in Jamestown, New York. What's going on, Tim?

Hey, good afternoon, Rachel and George. It's a real pleasure to speak with you today. You as well. Thank you. We actually visited Ramsey Solutions about three years ago. How did it go? Rachel, we got to meet you. Oh, good to talk to you again. My son and daughter-in-law did their debt-free screen.

Oh, that's awesome. That's fun. Yeah. So great. Yeah. We have a great audience today as well that is here. We love it. So fun. I love it. Oh, good. Yeah, that was one of the highlights of the last decade for me was being at Ramsey Solutions. It's an amazing place. A decade. Wow. That's big. I'll take that. I'm lucky to be top five on any list.

How can we help? Well, so a question for you. My mother-in-law has told my wife that she wants to start giving her some money each year out of her 401k account. She says between her pension and her Social Security, she has more than enough to live off of. And she wants to start giving some of her wealth to her children to enjoy now. Love it.

Yeah, sounds great. But we weren't sure what we should do in this situation. I know my mother-in-law met with an attorney who advised her that he can give away up to maybe $18,000 a year with no tax implications. Sure. You know, there's a gift form. I mean, you can give up to, what, $14 million per person out of your estate. So how wealthy is she?

I don't know. But I know she's fine. Like what she said, just between her pension and Social Security, she lives very comfortably. Yeah, I'd take her word for it. Okay, yeah. Well, the only thing she takes out of her 401k is the minimum she's required to take out each year. Yeah, the RMD. Yep, yep. And she gives most of that away to charities. Okay.

What a woman. Yeah, she's wonderful. She's done very, very well over the years. She and my father-in-law, who passed away quite a while ago. But they've done very well. We're very proud of them. So what's your fear here? What's the hang-up? Well, yeah, one of our fears is, well, I guess we never saw this coming. So it kind of rocked us a little bit. Yeah, it took you off guard. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

But one of our fears is there is some history of dementia in her family. She's the youngest of five sisters, and several of her older sisters ended up having to go to skilled nursing. We're praying very hard she never does. But our concern is, well, what if she does? Do we want to take her money if she might need it when she goes into that and dies?

We want to take care of her first and foremost and make sure she's doing the right thing with her resources. Well, it sounds like 18,000 out of her nest egg, is that a big portion? Does she have a million in the nest egg?

I wish I knew. I think that would help me feel better about it. I think that would give you some peace because we don't know how much she has. If she has $200,000 in this account and she's giving $20,000 away, that might give me some pause. But if she has a million and it's producing $100,000 of income per year on average, or at least in growth, then I'd go, okay. And it's on her volition between her pension and Social Security to give this money. So I would accept it.

knowing that we might need to consider future medical care for her. Yeah, if you asked her if she would show you guys her whole financial picture, would she or is she a private person and she wouldn't?

I'm not sure she would, but we can give it a try. My wife has one brother, so maybe the two of them can get together with her and maybe she'd share. Okay. Did she say how much she's going to give? I know their attorney said $18,000 would avoid the gift tax forms and all that, but is that what she's decided on? Well, she already gave my wife and my brother-in-law $10,000 each already.

And I don't know if she wants to give $10,000 a year, but she said up to $18,000. It was kind of unclear what she was going to do. Yeah, so I think from like a family boundaries, moral, you know, whole conversation, we're seeing more and more of this of people while they're alive saying,

want to start passing their inheritance to their kids or to their family versus dying. And you guys get it all, you know, upon her death or something. And so so it is becoming more common. And I think your hesitations are right in the sense of, hey, we want to make sure that she's taking care of herself first and foremost. And so if I was her daughter, that's probably how I would present it. I'm like, hey, mom.

You know, this is incredible. Like we were not expecting this. I'm so honored that you're, you know, choosing to be so generous with us. But I would love just to sit down and kind of see everything, map everything out and just walk through a couple of situations that could arise here in the next, you know, 10, 15, 20 years.

And make sure that you're taken care of. Like, we want to make sure you're good, you know, and just kind of start that conversation and look at those numbers, look to see if there's a plan, if she has even long term care insurance. I mean, I don't know, but get some of those answers. And then I think you guys would feel better at accepting the gift in its entirety, knowing that she's good. She's taking care of herself. She's being wise for her.

And it's just you guys get the repercussions of a blessing of someone that's done really well. And that's an honoring legacy, you know, for her to see you guys use what she and her husband had built for so long. So I think it's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. It is a real honor. It's a real blessing. What are you guys going to do with the money? Well, I guess that was kind of our next question. I mean, we've been saving for retirement. We've been debt free, completely debt free for decades.

Awesome. Congrats. And it sounds like your kids are doing very well for themselves. How do we clone you guys? This is amazing. America would be in a different place, Tim.

I love it. Well, here's what I always say. Never block a blessing. So if she wants to give the money, I would accept the money. If you want to invest the money, knowing one day we might use it to help pay for her care and kind of it goes full circle, that's fine too. Because you guys have a lot of options with what you do with it. And chances are you're going to have so much money when we're ready to cross that bridge, you'd be able to cover the care without even thinking about it. And it sounds like you're the type of people to do that.

Yeah. Yeah, that's what we were leaning towards was maybe investing that money, at least short term to see how things go. Yeah, I think that's wise. What would be the best tool to invest that in if we do that? If you didn't want to do it in retirement to where it was a little more flexible? Because how old are you two? Mm-hmm.

I'm 58 and my wife is 59. Okay. So you're on the cusp of being able to access retirement funds, but if you wanted to just keep it liquid, I would just open up a taxable brokerage account and just park it in an S&P 500 index fund and just let it ride. And who knows what the market will do, but that should give you around that 10% over a long period of time, and that money should double for you every about seven years. Okay.

So 10 grand one year, 10 grand the next year, 10 grand the next year. You know, 10 years from now, you could be looking at 200 grand sitting in that one account from just parking the money. And if you chose to use it, nothing wrong with that either. Because likely you guys are going to have multi-million dollars if you're doing it right 10 years from now. And so you should have no problem paying for that care. I love it. Just responsible people helping other responsible people. What a best case scenario this is. We'll take it all day. Well done, Tim. Well done.

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so

Two weekends are on sale now for the Money and Marriage Getaway featuring none other than my co-host Rachel Cruz and our friend Dr. John Deloney. Spend three incredible days in Nashville with your spouse learning the tools to strengthen your connection, deepen your intimacy, and more. It's happening November and in February. Early bird pricing is available now. Tickets start at $7.49 per couple.

Get your tickets for the lowest price before they end. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash getaway or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. I know Rachel's already prepping for that. It's one of the best events we do, I think, George. It's one of the most fun. I mean, if you guys know Dr. John Deloney, he's a hoot.

And I mean, just to do all, I mean, to do a full weekend with people is fun. You get to really create a connection and a moment. There's something about being with the same group of people over the course of two to three days. And you're like, oh yeah, you know, you recognize people. It's like this camaraderie that's built. Yes. And it's fun. Like, yes, they talk about serious stuff. Yeah, we get into it. And we go there. It's vulnerable. But it's not like a crisis, very like, uh, violent.

just gripping yourself the whole time. It's not. Yeah, we get real. We get real, real quick. But also, it's enjoyable and fun. So it's all the things. So come join us. It's great. RamseySolutions.com slash events. All right, John is in Reno, Nevada. Up next, what's going on, John? Hey, guys. How are you? Great. What's your question today? Awesome.

So, thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it. My wife and I purchased a house from a family member, and the family member has asked us specifically not to pay off the house early. So, I don't know if I get stuck at baby step six or do I move to baby step seven. Why are they asking that? So, the family member...

I think they're trying to leave that as a gift for after they pass away. And I don't think they—they didn't want their tax bracket messed with either. I don't understand. Did you finance it through them?

Correct. Yes, sir. Oh, so they're saying, hey, if you pay us back all of this money too soon, it will count as income for us and kick us up in the tax brackets? Is that their concern? Correct. Yes, sir. By paying it off early. So let's say you paid $50,000 toward your mortgage, which is them. That's $50,000 of income for that year that they have to report. Correct. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. What's the terms of this mortgage? Is this official or is this just like a handshake agreement?

No, it's official. Everything's written out. Okay. What would happen if you just decided to refinance and get out of this deal and have the mortgage be on your terms? I don't think they would. I don't think they'd want that. I think it's my wife's father, and I think he's more trying to keep that as basically like a steady form of income for when he retires. And then...

Ultimately, whatever's left, it wouldn't be paid off within the amount of time. He knows that, and his intention is at that point when he passes, it's yours. So he's wanting you guys to be paying essentially the mortgage payments, and he's using that money for retirement is what you're saying? I believe that's what it is, yeah. But your names are on the deed solely? Yeah.

What's up, Seth? Are you and your wife's names on the deeds on your own? Her dad is not on the deed. Her dad, yes, yes. My wife and I are on the deed. No, I'm sorry. The deed is still his name. That's the worst. That means you don't own the house that you are paying down.

Until he would pass away, correct. This feels crazy, man. Okay, so I'm trying to figure out what he's doing. I think I've got it. He's trying to leave this to you guys so the house will be, you won't have the step up, it'll have the step up basis versus just selling it to you outright. But then why make you guys pay? Because he can't afford it? I'm not entirely sure of that. I just, this was a, you can't go back in time and undo it, but I would undo it if I could.

This has left you guys in a very precarious situation where he's getting all the benefit. You're just renting a house from him that hopefully becomes yours one day. Essentially, yeah. So therefore, I would not pay it off early because you don't even own it. If you paid it off today, it doesn't make you the owner of the house. That's the scariest part. Oh, okay. And if you buy it from him today, that changes the basis price because it becomes the market value of that home.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. So if he bought it for $200,000 and now it's worth $600,000 as you're living in it, well, if he just passed away and left it to you, that price, that basis would step up. And so if the house is worth $600,000, you would owe taxes on anything above that when you sell it. And so I think that's part of it is he's trying to avoid some of this tax situation, but he's tied you guys to this thing in a really terrible way. Would this be the house you bought otherwise? And would it be the price point you bought it?

I'm sorry, can you say that one more time, sir? Is this the house you would, if you had any choice in whatever house you bought, would this be the house you chose and the price point that you would choose? Yeah.

Yes, sir. It was his mother's originally. And when she passed away, she said, make sure that we get it. So it was given to him. And then we were buying it from him. But you're not buying it. If you buy something from him, it becomes yours. And you just told me it's not yours, even if you paid it off today. And the grandmother told him to give it to you all, right? Was it paid off? Yes. Okay.

So he created a mortgage out of thin air in order to create income for himself? I think so, yeah. He wanted a steady form of income for after—an additional form of income for after he retired. I feel like there was a better way to do that than you guys renting it from him while he's alive. Okay. So is he able to work right now? Yes, sir. He works. Okay.

Okay, I'm just picturing this. What would happen if you guys, you can't even sell the home because you don't own it. Do you understand how dangerous this is? He doesn't feel like it is because it's going to go in the will, right? Maybe, hopefully, one day. But you guys are, until then, you're in these weird handcuffs. How old are you guys, John, you and your wife? I'm 33 and my wife just turned 40. What happens if you guys get a job in another city and decide to move?

Um, we, we, we can't really, we're kind of tied to our area. Well, yeah, you're tied to that house. You have no equity. Think about it. Let's say you pay off, you pay this thing down a hundred grand. You have built $0 in equity in this home. For under your name. It's all now in the dad's name. And he's not really giving you anything. If you paid it all down, you could have done that with a normal home. There's no benefit to you guys at this point.

Okay. All the benefit is on his side. It's all on his side. And just to say that you guys are living in the grandmother's house that she wanted passed down to you. You know what I'm saying? Like it's, there's nothing here for you all.

I mean, unless and when he dies, I mean, how old is he in his 50s, 60s? He's he's he's in good health. He's 64. All right. So Pops is going to be living till 30 more years. He's 93 and you still don't own a home. Yeah. Are they going to give you the deed when you when he paid off? Like, I don't understand. Yeah.

Well, and that's the thing. He's asked us not to pay it off. He doesn't want his taxes messed with. Dude, I would get out of this deal and just go rent somewhere else, and he can rent it out, and when he passes, he can still deed it over to you. That's honestly what I would do. I'd rather you go build your own wealth because we don't – there's too many variables, and they're all in his favor right now.

So I would personally get out of this situation. He can rent it out if he wants income. I think he's using you guys as a scapegoat in all of this, and I don't like it. I'm not saying he's a bad person. Easy renters. Easy situation. Now, I don't know if we can. I mean, we've signed a contract and everything. I don't know if we can just up and leave.

Man, you signed up for a mortgage with a house you're not owning. That scares me. I would work with an attorney and see if there's any way out of this thing. You need to get the deed in y'all's name would be the next big step. That's the only way I would continue. Yeah. And I don't care what that does to his taxes or his inheritance plan. You guys need to do this in a way that is wise and less risky. This is The Ramsey Show.

Listen, your home is your most expensive asset, and now you're ready to sell, fast and for a lot of money. But in this wackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner, someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a Ramsey-trusted real estate agent comes in. To

To find one near you, go to ramseysolutions.com slash agent. That's ramseysolutions.com slash agent. ♪♪♪

We know that you guys have been trying to help people in your life get started on the Ramsey plan. So we built something for you. It's the Ramsey 101 playlist to help you help them. It's a free, easy to share playlist that covers all the basics for someone who's just getting started with Ramsey and just needs to be dunked in the pool. So clips like what are the baby steps, how to pay off debt with a debt snowball, how to build an emergency fund and so much more.

So here's how to share it. Just click the link at the top of the show notes to open the Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube. You can then hit the share button and text it, DM it, send it in the group chat. And if you're listening on radio, we've got the playlist featured at the top of our YouTube channel. You can just head over there and share it. It's one share that could help change someone's life. Kyle is in San Francisco up next. Welcome, Kyle. How are you doing? I'm good. How are y'all doing? Great. How can we help?

Thanks for having me on the show. So me and my wife have had this plan to purchase a house about three and a half years from now. And I've recently been getting more into my finances and actually listening to the show and just trying to figure out how we're going to do it with how much debt we're going to have. Do you currently have debt?

I currently have about $50,000 in debt, but we're going to have a lot more of that in three and a half years when my wife graduates from her grad school. Oh, boy. What's it going to be? How much? It's going to be close to $200,000 because she's getting her doctorate in veterinary medicine. In what? Vet? Veterinary medicine, yes. Okay. How much will she be making when she graduates? $200,000.

Close to what I make, which will be around $150,000. Okay, and you guys are, are you legit in the Bay Area? So I'm only over here for work. I'm going back home to Mississippi in three and a half years when she graduates in three and a half years. Is she in Mississippi? Yes.

Oh, boy. How long have you guys been married? Okay. Can you find a job that's either remote or in Mississippi to be closer to her?

So the job I currently do, I worked this job in Mississippi. I'm only here on a temporary contract. Okay. For how long? For the next three and a half years. Oh, it is for three and a half years. That's not very temporary. Yeah, it's not very temporary. Okay. Well, that's neither here nor there. You're asking how you're going to afford a house in Mississippi? Yes, sir. Okay. Okay.

Well, the good news is combined, you're going to have a $300,000 plus income three and a half years from now. Maybe even more. Hopefully you'll get a raise a little bit. Maybe. And so in three and a half years, you're going to be able to clean up at least your debt and maybe start knocking hers out or at least have her stop accumulating it. Can we stop the bleeding now? Has she already taken out all the loans she's going to need?

Yes. So a lot of it's scholarships, but the loans she has to take to grad school, it's pretty much already set in stone. And it's on a deferment, so she doesn't have to pay them back until six months after she graduates is when she has to start paying her loans back. What's your 50K in debt?

So I've got $18,000 in her car. I still owe $25,000 on my truck. I've got about $2,000 in seal lines, which will be paid off pretty soon. And then together we have about $8,000 in credit card debt. Okay. How aggressively have you guys been tackling this debt? Has it kind of just been minimum payments and throwing a little extra when we can? Yeah.

So she's just in school right now. Is she full-time in school? Or is she working? Yes.

Okay. It will be full-time. Okay. How much are your cars worth? So my truck is currently worth maybe a little over $40,000. Oh. Okay. So you could sell it and net $15,000? Yes, technically, yeah. Okay. And how about hers? Her car is probably worth about $20,000. Okay. So you could net $2,000 for hers. That gives you $17,000 total. Could you buy two used cars for that amount? No.

enroll with them for the time being? So I'm actually driving a company truck right now and I'm not even driving. Oh, good. You won't even miss it. Sell it yesterday. That's perfect. At least sell yours right now and net that 15 and buy yourself something used in cash.

Yeah, because here's what I'm feeling, Kyle, if I were to be honest. So I just feel like you guys cutting up the cards, the credit cards, was a great first step. But I mean, it's like, yeah, you guys are just used to living what I would say is very normal. Yeah, we want to go to school here. We can't afford it. We'll take out some student loans. We want some cars. Can't afford them. We'll just take out some loans. Yeah.

We'll get some credit card debt over here. My job's over here. Your school's here. We're going to live apart for three and a half years. It just kind of feels a little bit just kind of like...

Hodgepodge or something. I don't know. And I think there's something would be really great for you all is to have some strict structure around an element of your life. And I would put money as that category. And to say, what if we did things so differently on how we've handled money thus far? Because so far, it's not like looking great, you know?

And what if we just did the complete opposite of what we've been doing and actually have some level of like this healthy control and a plan in place while these other parts of our life are just kind of out there, right? I mean, like school, like she's going to graduate. I don't know. It just kind of feels out there. There's something to me that's like, I just want you guys to have

like a firm plan in place that's uncomfortable for y'all for a little bit, which would be good. Meaning sell the cars, like get rid of the debt, get rid of the car payments. And Kyle, you start saving up a ton. You could, and you can knock out your student loan. You know, you guys can knock out this eight grand. Like you could start making some big progress right now while she's in school. And then when she graduates, you guys have a fleshed out plan that when you're making 300, maybe 350, I don't know if you're starting to make more,

And you'll have at that point then $200,000 if you've paid off all the debt in the next three and a half years. You'll have $200,000 on a $300,000 salary. And to make a crazy goal of what if we paid all of the student loans off in a year, in 18 months? And then we could save like crazy because we have great incomes for an emergency fund, a down payment on a home. Like you guys could start getting some major traction here.

But I feel like you guys need like a little bit of like this like zap. Some urgency. In your spirit or something, you know, to some radical change needs to occur. And I think selling the cars, you guys could probably just pay them off. But I kind of like the idea, Kyle, of just doing something. Drastic. Yes. To kind of feel a little bit of this. Kind of shock therapy, if you will. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what I would do. Because you guys, I mean, on your own, Kyle, are you bringing home like 8K a month right now?

Yes, just about. Okay, and how much of that do you need to live on for expenses, bills, insurance, all that? Well, California's proved to be more expensive than I originally thought, but so I need at least probably $5,000 of that to live off of. Okay, that leaves you with $3,000. And so if you sell this truck, that leaves you with what, $20,000, the $18,000 plus the $10,000, so that's $28,000? You getting that?

Yes. So you'll be done with that debt in nine months at this rate if you do nothing else but throw every extra cent of margin toward your debts. And that's if she keeps the car, by the way. Yeah. So nine months from now, you're completely debt free. And then keep living like that. And then keep living like that. Save for your emergency fund. Or, you know, at this point, start paying off for student loans. You don't have to wait for them to be in deferment. I'd start attacking them as soon as you can. Yeah. Especially since there's no interest accumulating. Yeah.

And so you think it would be okay to pull a mortgage on a house when she graduates? No, I would not buy. This three and a half year plan, I don't know where this number came from, but you are not ready to buy a house until you're completely debt free with an emergency fund and a down payment. That might be five year plan. But guess what? You also will have an amazing income on the other side of this. So take advantage of that. You'll make up for lost time making 300 grand with no debt. I promise you that. So.

So don't lose hope, but we need to get started on this now, not waiting three and a half years from now and hoping that life has changed drastically. We got to change first. So I believe in you, Kyle. You guys are going to be doing real good, but we got to clean up a little mess first. I wish you guys the best on this journey. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 121 verses one and two, I will raise my eyes to the mountains. From where will my help come? My help comes from the Lord who made heaven and earth.

Earl Wilson once said, one way to get high blood pressure is to go mountain climbing over molehills. Ain't that the truth? Only a guy named Earl can pull that one off.

I love that. That's funny. That's true. Took me a second. People who overinflate, over-dramatize. I don't know anyone who would over-dramatize anything except for Rachel Cruz. No drama here. I don't get overly emotional. It's fine. Rachel does it to entertain others. It's never self-serving. Never. So selfless with your drama. Thank you. All right. Calder is up next in Columbus, Ohio. Calder, thanks for calling us.

Hey, thank you so much for having me. It's been a dream to be on this show. Absolutely. We're glad to take the call. What's going on in your world? Yeah, so we are currently paying for our own wedding, me and my fiancee, for next year in the San Francisco Bay Area. And her relatives have a lot of strong opinions on how we should handle things. Ooh. And I could use some advice. Like what? What are their opinions?

Yeah, so a little context. I grew up as a third-gen Chinese-American. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area. My fiancée, Tina, she grew up in Columbus, Ohio. She's a first-gen Vietnamese, and she grew up in the Vietnamese Catholic Church. I grew up in the Christian Church. Her family is very, very traditional in terms of Catholicism,

a Vietnamese culture. Um, you know, they, they really appreciate me and they really love me, but you know, there's, uh, some differences in, in, uh, religion and whatnot. Um, so, um,

They are expecting us to do these traditional tea ceremony things and certain Catholic service and whatnot. And we want to have our wedding kind of how we want to, and we both are on the same page about that. At the same time, we're in a conflict of how do we have our own wedding our way versus trying to accommodate others.

All of our guests, obviously half the guests are going to be Vietnamese and then half of them are... Do you guys get a say on the invite list or is it like mom's going to invite all of her friends no matter what and now you guys are footing the bill? So I would say for the most part, like 90%, I would say we're kind of taking the invite list. However, we do feel like we are kind of forced to kind of invite some people just because

They do say the blood is thicker than water. Do we really want to invite them? Sure. Probably not. And they're not paying from a financial standpoint. You guys are paying for everything, right? That's correct. We are going to be paying for everything. Have you guys talked about the financial piece of this with either side of the family? What do you mean? Not really. Have you talked about here's what it's going to cost or we're going to offer to pitch in or are they not even offered at all?

So our families are pretty generous. I would expect us to probably cover, honestly, maybe the cost of the wedding, which is probably going to be around $30,000 or $40,000. But no, we haven't really brought up the cost with them yet. I don't know if it's more so like the cost is really not... Yeah, because you guys have enough money to pay for the wedding. Is that correct? That's right. Okay, so what I would do... I mean, honestly, Calder, this is kind of the first...

bump in the road of, you know, to a degree, you know, you and your wife become your own family unit. Leave and cleave. Yeah, it's not a disrespectful thing, but this is, this will go on and they will have different opinions for the rest of your life. And so this is kind of one of the first benchmarks of the precedent of how we handle this and their feelings and

for how we're probably going to do it going forward. And so it's going to be really uncomfortable, but I would have her take the lead because it's her family. But if you both want to, but I would let her definitely initiate. She handles her side. You handle your family. Yeah. And if she wants you with her in the conversation, that's great. But I would sit down with them in person if you can as ideal.

And in a very respectful, gracious way, tell them thank you, obviously, for all that they are and who they are. And you guys cannot wait for this union and life together and all of it. But there are going to be decisions that you all make as a family unit that are going to make them uncomfortable. And mom and dad, here are probably what it's going to be. There probably is not going to be a traditional – I mean, and I would just go through it and rip the Band-Aid off.

And again, it's not you're not being disrespectful by any means. They may take it as that, but that's theirs to carry. If you do it, go ahead. And the hardest part is, is that so we are we're very pretty strong Christian believers. And, you know, they're more of they grew up in the Catholic Church. But there's like this misunderstanding of like, you know, we're not following their path and whatnot. But like.

At the end of the day, like we are, you know, following God and we both are. The Nicene Creed covers Catholics or Orthodox Protestant, like under the Christian umbrella. I mean, genuinely, genuinely that, you know, it is, I mean, yeah, the foundation and how the expression comes out is going to look different. And some people on all, all ends of the spectrum are very passionate either way. There's Protestants that are very passionate towards Catholics, Catholics that are very, you know, I mean, it goes all, all the way.

So, again, it's going to be a tension point because they are very passionate about it. But that's their opinion, right? Like that – you're not going to change that. But what you can do is control the decisions that you guys make, how you treat them. And going forward, honestly, it's like – it's kind of that – it makes it strong. I mean, honestly, it makes you and your wife, especially since you guys are on the same page and there's not tension between you all –

I think in a stronger unit. But that's, I mean, that is so, that is very hard. Very, very hard. Because, yeah, there's a lot of opinions and a lot of strong convictions, right? Especially when you bring in a spiritual element. They really do. They feel that. Yeah.

That's upsetting them. Insult to injury. Right. You're not having a traditional Vietnamese Catholic wedding, and we've got to travel across the country, and there's not going to be a tea ceremony. Exactly.

What happened? Right. What happened to my daughter? What have you done to her? Yeah. Welcome to the first of many disappointments that you will experience with in-laws. I know. There's going to be very few things you ever do that make them happy. I know. The way you raise the kids. I mean, all of it. It's just going to, they will have their opinions. The best thing you can do is just hold the boundary while being respectful and kind. That's right. Awesome. I appreciate you guys for all your advice and input.

Yeah, you're approaching this from the right way. You sound very level-headed. Nothing about this is trying to be rebellious and irreverent. But there's going to be a point where you go, this is my new life with my new wife. And at some point, I can't ask mommy for her opinion unless I ask for it, in which case I will take it. And your parents were from the Middle East. And I do think different cultures, right? There is a stronger tie between.

Not that us Americans aren't that, but there is something to be said. It's a very, there's a closeness there. I didn't have a traditional Arabic wedding. I married a very white woman who's out there right now.

Then my parents weren't opinionated because we did the, you know, I've been a Southern boy now for a long time. I didn't have my wedding at the old Arabic Baptist church that I grew up in. Yep. Yep. But you know, there's things I'm sure they disagreed with, but I did have a legitimate camel at my wedding. So that was my nod to my last name and the Middle Eastern culture. And that made my dad very happy. He spent most of the wedding just engaging with the camel and taking selfies with it. So I would call that a win.

So maybe that's for Calder. There's some advice. Get a live animal at your wedding. It could distract from the fact there's no tea ceremony. Oh, man. That is hard. That's so hard. You know what? The destination wedding sometimes is great. Because some people don't end up coming. And sometimes that's great. Great. I know. I know. But hey, my grandma was able to make that was her last trip.

Wow. Yeah, back in 2018 for our wedding. And she flew in from where? She flew in from Boston. Oh my gosh, that's great. So shout out. She recently passed. RIP, Grandma. I love you. There you go. Cherish family. Honor them, but also you do you. Don't do anything because someone forced you to. It'll just create resentment in your heart, and that doesn't help any relationship. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to my co-host, Rachel Cruz, all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat. Appreciate you guys listening in. We'll be back before you know it.

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