S1E9: The We We Are (with Jon Stewart)
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Do you have a seatbelt on that chair? Over the shoulder, strapped in, boys. Okay, great. Bring it. Here we go.

Hey, I'm Ben Stiller. I'm Adam Scott. And this is the Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam, where we break down every single episode of Severance. And wow, Ben, we're here at the finale, the season one finale, the We We Are, written, of course, by Dan Erickson and directed, of course, by you, Ben Stiller. How are you doing? I feel, I mean, it's, first of all, we've gotten through

all nine episodes of the first season it feels like an accomplishment kind of i think and it's been a lot easier than i think when we were making the episodes right it seems like it went a lot quicker but uh it's been really fun and i feel like you and i have kind of you know we're like starting to get a little bit of a feeling of like what it is to be a podcasting team

Yeah, it's been super fun. It's been really interesting going back and going through the episodes from the mindset of, I'm going to need to talk about this rather than just –

cringing and hiding, watching through my fingers and being freaked out about watching it. But really, after not having watched it for... The last time I watched it was before we started shooting season two. And then on set, we would go in and look at things to refer to if we needed information or whatever. But really just sitting and watching full episodes, it had been a while. Yeah. And it's interesting when you work on something, you're editing it and just living with it so much. And then all of a sudden you have...

a break of like a year or two in this case and you know i i was saying the other day like sometimes you look at stuff and it's like oh all right that was pretty good and then there are other other times you look at and go oh i could have done that a lot better or you remember the pain of that day of shooting that one thing or what you couldn't get right and but overall it's a totally different experience watching it when you're disconnected from it when you're severed from the experience of having

actually uh just made it and so it's been fun it's been really fun um you brought it back full circle there thank you yeah i like to use the terminology whenever i can

But I think if I were to sum up our little chat here, A, it's an enormous accomplishment that we've made this podcast, perhaps a bigger accomplishment than making the show. I think we could maybe retire after doing this podcast. Yeah. We've done it all now. B, it's much easier to make a podcast than the actual show.

It is easier than making the show. And it's as fun, though, because making the show is fun. It's more like a long-term fun project where you work at it for a long time and the work is fun.

Yes, I love making the show. And another component of rewatching it is it makes me want to get back and start shooting the show some more to start shooting it again. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. The other exciting thing about today is for our finale episode of the first season recap podcast is that we have...

a huge guest on the show. We have... Oh my God, do we? Yeah. I mean, I have known this person for a long time, but he's become a television legend. And I was honored to learn also is actually a Severance super fan, which just... Wow. I was... You know, it's so funny when you're working on this stuff and then all of a sudden somebody you really respect...

And reaches out and says, hey, man, I love that thing. I'm so into it. It's such a great feeling. But the person we're talking about is Jon Stewart, ladies and gentlemen. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I...

Guys, I thought you were about to introduce Letterman. I was listening to the intro and I was like, oh my, I can't wait to meet this person. But John, you have graduated to those ranks. Oh God. You have. And I got the grace to prove it, man. We all do. You've put the work in. You've spent the time. Yes, yes.

I've, I've grinded. You have, you, you know, you've become someone that people I think look to, uh, you know, for, for guidance and humor and relief and, uh, sort of your, your, and you're just smarter too, John. Or to angrily yell at by the Holland tunnel. That also happens. Yeah.

I will say, I remember the moment you reached out to Ben about severance. Ben, you texted me that Jon Stewart likes severance. It was a huge deal. Doesn't even like severance, obsessed. There was an obsession. And it's the same way that I found out, and Ben had told me this, that you were filming severance.

an episode down near where I live. And so I was able, Ben was kind enough to let me come on the set. And it was this episode, actually, I believe, Ben, is that correct? That is correct. You came by while we were shooting the heli sequence for the last episode at Lumen at the Bell Labs building, which you're in the vicinity of, I guess. I don't want to give away too much

And that might be what those drones over. Central Jersey, yo. What's up? We can put your address in the show notes. Not a problem. As we speak, there's a drone issue over New Jersey. And I don't know if that has to do with. Sorry about that, guys. It's just it's a new business I was starting of giant drone swarms. I just thought I didn't realize people would get so freaked out about.

Yeah, exactly. Whenever I see a report about that on the news or like on my phone or something, I literally feel like I'm in a Roland Emmerich 90s, you know, Independence Day movie or whatever. It's like... No question. It feels like that's a scene from the movie where the reporters start talking about the, you know, these drones that nobody can identify and people are being told to relax and...

They're totally relaxed. Listen, everything's fine until they get lasers. And then the whole thing is, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And they've just been hovering every night. So you came by and it was really fun. Our cinematographer, Jessica Lee Gagne, I'm just going to out her and say she's a big fan of yours and was like, and she doesn't really get impressed by a lot of people. And she got very quiet and was sort of like, oh, my God, Jon Stewart's here. Jon Stewart's here.

No, I made sure to stay really far away from her. I just sensed the vibe right off the bat. And you'll notice a lot of the shots are out of focus in that sequence because she wasn't paying attention. Completely out of focus. Yep. And I was just so, just, first of all, that Bell Labs, and I don't know where you guys found it, but it is notoriously for us who live around here, this odd dystopian development, sort of this, it was Bell Labs for a long time.

And then it was bought by a guy who developed it and wanted to create like almost a village or a community of,

Around it. And it's the weirdest. It's like if Mussolini had decided to plan like a subdivision, a suburban subdivision. Like it's the weirdest giant cement. They actually have that on their brochure. Yes. Mussolini's subdivision. It's as if. But I don't know. Like perfect subdivision.

for what you would think is this kind of luminesque dystopian. And you walk into it and it's like a full court basketball, right? Built in there. And then like one coffee shop and Hasidic couples meeting each other. It's the oddest. It's weird. We spend weeks there and it's like frozen yogurt, right?

coffee. It's really crazy. It's a mixed use space. It's, it's, they've been trying to, yeah. And, and it, it really, the thing that, that really blew us away was that nobody had ever filmed anything there. Right. There've been no movies or maybe some commercials, but you know, that's one of the things when we're looking for locations, you want to find something that's not, you know, hasn't been in every law and order episode or, you know, New York, we shoot a lot. Right. And,

So this place was undiscovered. It's like, you know, if you notice now in Atlanta, like any show that you watch, they're now using like Covington, Georgia. Like it's all like if you watch Stranger Things and then Walking Dead, you're like, I'm pretty sure that's the same high school. Totally. This place. And there's that great scene when Mrs. Selvig was driving on that long road.

Because there's this really long, beautiful sort of drive into the Bell Labs offices. And you guys captured that so well. And there's that, what's that funny tower, Ben? Yeah, that's the water tower there that they built in the shape of a transistor. Okay, I didn't realize that. Yeah, because that's where the transistor was developed by Bell Labs back in the day.

Wow. Yeah. They've got to make everything shape. The water tower has to, does it have to hold water? No, it has to look like a transistor. Yeah, I know. It's so interesting. And we've really made that one of the sort of iconic, you know, things in the show that we put the Lumen logo on. But all of those houses, the Mussolini subdivision of houses that are built on the sides of that

driveway they built because we've been working on the show for five years right and when we first scouted this place those houses were just being built they had just decided to do subdivision of on either side of the driveway which we erase in the show so when you see the wide wide scenes right you don't see the houses but they built them all around there as a way to I guess

you know, create a community. And it's a, it's a very, very interesting place. And that design and architecture, it was Eero Saarinen, the architect who designed it. Really? Yeah. Who also did the TWA terminal at JFK and, you know, these great mid-century architects. So that's his design. They expanded on it in the eighties and built on the sides a little more

But those little specific sort of touches that he has on the inside are kind of what cued us for the rest of the design of the show because we found this as it was the first location we found. It's remarkable. And people don't know, there's an atrium there that's like nothing I've ever seen before. It's like these sides. And I guess when they were working in Bell Labs, all those sides were the offices. It's the least efficient use of space ever.

you could ever possibly imagine. It's just like, what if we just put single file offices

down what appears to be three acres and 10 stories high of just open space. Yeah, it's just a hollowed out like three football fields that could have been offices, but instead it's just open air. It's wild. And they just signed up one cafeteria space in the corner. That's right. That was the end of it. And I don't think even in seeing it on screen, you don't get the size of it, the scale of it when you're there. It's so much bigger. Giant.

During COVID, so that space became during COVID a place where people went to kind of avoid each other but still have that feeling of being around people. And then those giant parking lots, they started showing outdoor movies everywhere.

And they started doing like music or comedy shows where people would sit in their cars because it's just this vast expanse. Wow. Wow. Yeah, that makes sense. And I've been there when they've had like carnivals in the parking lot and all sorts of things. You could do any of those. It's the craziest thing.

In spring of 2021, when we were shooting there and the vaccinations were just starting, there were people lined up all in that lobby getting vaccinated. In fact, I remember a couple of people from the show got vaccinated there while we were doing the show. I got to tell you, if the FEMA camps come, that's where they're going to set. That's where we're all going to be reeducated for whatever's coming next. That is the place. That will be the place. Yeah.

That'll be the place where we all go to be reeducated. It'll be kind of ironic, you know? Yes. Okay, let's take a quick break. At Lumen, things are not always what they seem. Mark, Dylan, Helly, and Irving in MDR make a great team, but what else lies beyond the four white walls of their department?

There seem to be more questions than answers as the secrets of Lumen are slowly revealed. There's definitely a lot more going on than you see. It's a little bit creepy. I agree. There are more Q's than A's in this place. Yeah, for sure. But luckily, your workplace doesn't have to be so dysfunctional thanks to Confluence by Atlassian.

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John, what was like the main thing that drew you about the show? What was the thing about it that was like so- You know, I follow Adam Scott everywhere. So whatever he does, I jump in. You're just there. Whether he's married to Reese Witherspoon or whether he's heading off into a dystopian, I follow-

That's why you were such a fan of Piranha 3D, I would imagine. So the 3D, obviously, for me, felt a little much. But I'm an Adam Scott fan, but I prefer you 2D. I prefer you... Got it. I prefer Lego, to be honest with you. Okay. Keep that in mind. You know, Ben, anything you're in, directing or any of that stuff I watch, but what originally, it had such a unique...

style, atmosphere, tone, you know, it anymore. It's so hard to find something where even the, the rhythm of it feels so fresh. And so you're really invested in the world that you guys build out and it's done so meticulously. And there's,

touches in it that just feels so unique it reminds me of if you remember in the movie her where everyone's pants were just a little higher and you're like is that is like is that going to mean anything or is that just something we're like in the future our pants are higher like so in the beginning that's what intrigues you about the show is are these little details salient

Are they merely, is it a bit of window dressing? But you're so invested in the intentionality that you guys infuse into the show. So much intention. And obviously the execution level is so high that you're immediately like, you feel anytime you're on a show like that, where you're watching and you're leaning in a little bit, you feel yourself just drawn into this

world that feels intentional unique but also utterly authentic to to what it is yeah and so that for me just even i mean that the opening credit sequence like even that is

where I'm just like, Sim Adam Scott in bed? Okay. I'll follow this anywhere. Yeah. So I was just thrilled to find something that had built its own unique and intentional universe. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's funny. I kind of get drawn in by things like that too. Even making something, it's hard to describe, and sometimes it sounds a little bit sort of...

this is like what you want to do. But like, it's for me, sometimes it's just like living in that world. Like I, and that's the music is a really important part of it for me too. Yes. And we, we work with Teddy Shapiro, who I've worked with since back in the day, like dodgeball, I go all the way back. I knew him when he was still Shapiro, you know, before he went with the,

Well, I changed my name to Styler, Ben Styler. The long I. I didn't know why. I said, give me the short I. Don't give me the long I. Yes. Then he moved out to LA and got affected. But what I was saying is this, like for me, I get drawn in when working on something to wanting to like live in that world, you know? And like as we're editing it, putting it together, the feeling, the visuals, the sound, and all that. And it is – it's something that has –

Really, it has to do with the story and all that too, but there's just something about being in that world that you hopefully have created with all these different elements of the collaboration of everybody who works on it. I'm also curious, Ben, and Adam, I don't know if you feel this way when you're making those kinds of acting choices, but-

On television, especially something like The Daily Show, it's very ephemeral. And you go on one day and you'll know immediately what the response is and all that. Sort of like egg salad, you make it and three days later, no matter how good it was, it's already gone. But you're ensconced in this world for so long. And like you were saying, like five years. Yeah. And you're making really strong creative choices. Yeah. How scary is it?

To do that for so long without any sense of sort of like, how do you know when you've gone down a rabbit hole that's going to bear fruit? How do you know when you've made, because now you're making choices that build upon other choices and it kind of, it goes out in these sort of concentric circles and unveiling that must be terrifying. Yes. I would think.

Yes. Adam, do you want to go? 100%. Sure. I mean, first of all, I totally agree, John, when you're watching something that feels like it has been wholly considered, like everything has been. It's comforting. It's something I appreciate. And honestly, as a fan, something I've always appreciated about what Ben does, whether it's Tropic Thunder or Escape at Dannemora, you feel like every detail you are looking at on that screen has been considered.

mulled over and figured out and considered, right? You are in very good hands, right? Yeah, yeah. I, as a viewer, that's all I'm looking for. Like, that is it. So to be in that world, and it was the same with Walter Mitty too, where you are

everything is there and ready. So you can trust completely in the world and in what, in your director and what Ben's doing. But yeah, that was, I think it hit me

later than it hit Ben but at a certain point when it was time for the season one to come out yeah it was terrifying and it for me it was when the billboards went up and I saw my face huge around town and that was the first time I had experienced that that's when I freaked out because it's just like we really took a big swing here yeah we really like it the top of your head is gone

Yeah. But like our people. Somebody had to say like, I like this Adam Scott fella, but not crazy about his whole head. We got to take the top half. Give me three quarters of Scott's head. That's right. That was the one where we go, that's the one. That's the one. It was just like, are people just going to make fun of, like, is this silly? You had the same kind of moment too, right? Well, for me, it's,

Yes, for sure. But what happens is I go into sort of when I'm working on something, it's different because I'm not, it's not like what you're doing on television where you're getting immediate feedback. You just make a commitment. If you're making a movie, it's the same thing. You make a commitment to it and you go and you work on it and then you show your first cut eventually. And that's when you're like, oh shit, I hope this works.

Right. And you try. But on this thing, it's different because it's nine or 10 episodes. So it's a much longer period of time. And we were doing it during COVID, the first season. And it was literally in a bubble. The whole thing was so insulated. And it was a great creative experience that, for me, I kind of fool myself somehow when I'm working on something. I'm just in it. Like when I do a take in a movie, I'm like,

Well, you know, maybe it won't be that take. Maybe it'll be the other take. So I don't have to worry about that now. And so that frees me up, I guess, just to try stuff. It wasn't until we finished the last cut of the last episode. I remember one night being at home because I was editing remotely with Jeff Richman, our editor, and we finished. And I remember just having this thought of like, oh, wait a minute. Like we've been doing this thing for like two years now.

I think it's good. I like it. I really like it, but like this thing could totally just fail. It could just be like, or nobody could watch it or people could think it's not, it doesn't work. And that, but that I kind of like put that off until I have to think about it. And then it is incredibly, yeah, this moment in time right now when we're about to release the new season, um,

Adam and I commiserate on it all the time. It's that feeling of like, Oh shit, I hope, you know, and it's different the second time around because the first time we had our, you had no expectations, just, it was like, I hope we're not embarrassed. You know what I mean? It's like, I hope people, cause it's so novel. I mean, part of it is, you know, sometimes when you're creating something, you have all these analogs. I mean, I don't know if you, you know, whenever I'm in a position to be able to build out a world, you're always sort of, you've got your,

Pinterest board of all the different influences and things, and you're pulling them from different places. But what you guys had made was so novel that it's really hard to find analogs. You can find inspirations, but if you're thinking about that, everything in television and film and all that is sort of boiled down to that. It's like gone with the wind with the Muppets. You're always trying to tie those two things together. Yeah.

This had such a, there was such oxygen in it, such inspiration, such different things that it's hard to find that. I imagine for you guys,

as a comfort hard to be like, well, it'll be like this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's funny. We made the first three episodes and I directed the first three in the last three. And I remember thinking after I made the first three, okay, I think these are good. I like these. And then I was like, oh no, but the last three, I don't know if the last three are going to live up to the first three because I

I didn't have as much prep time and it got more, you know, it's tougher as you go along, you're shooting. Right. And then it was kind of like people, a lot of people had this opposite reaction. Like, oh, I think it starts out kind of, some people were like, it starts out kind of slow and then you get into it. But I was thinking the opposite. Like, oh, I thought like we nailed it in the first few episodes. I hope though. And especially because the last episode, which we're talking about today, we shot...

We shot the whole show like a movie where you'd go to like one location and shoot scenes from episode three, six, and nine at Devin and Rickon's house, you know? Yeah. And then we're going to go to Lumen. Oh, that's hard for the actors too, I would imagine, because they're at different levels of investment in their characters. Yeah. I imagine that's difficult. Yeah. And it's tough also just in terms of when you're thinking of a whole season, because I've never really, I did that with Escape at Dannemora, I guess, but this was like

I don't know. It was bigger. And when we got to Devin and Rickon's house to shoot, which is one of the first places we shot for the season, we shot all the scenes from episode one and whatever other episodes were there. And then we had to go and shoot the scenes for episode nine there. And this was like a month into the shoot. Wow.

Or something like that. And all of a sudden, Adam is doing his she's alive moment. It was so out of context. Wow. And I remember the whole... And the way it was for episode nine was we would have to catch scenes where

For this episode, every time we were like when we were at Lumen, when you came, you know, we would just catch scenes. Right. We sometimes would go back and reshoot too. But overall, we were piecing this episode together piecemeal over the course of like nine months. So every once in a while, I'd check in with Jeff, our editor, and say like, how's nine coming along? It's like, well, we have this piece and that piece. And I remember being very insecure about nine thinking I, because also I'd always imagined it.

it's going to be totally different visually than the rest of the show because, you know, the show is very, you know, everything's kind of very set and like ordered, you know, not a lot of handheld, if any, unless there's a specific thing. But for episode nine, we're like, we're going to use Steadicam the whole time. And it's going to be flowing because we want to be in the point of view of these characters. And so that felt weird every time we'd pull out the Steadicam to shoot, because I'm like, you know, it should be in their point of view the whole time, but you can't be in their point of view the whole time because then you'll never see them. So how do you do that? And so, yeah,

I was constantly feeling like I hadn't quite figured it out and was just sort of like doing whatever we could to try to tell the story, making this choice. We knew that it was going to be very subjective. And yeah, I remember doing that, that the choices that you made that early on, because what I love about nine is that it's different from, you know, so much of it is kind of

not an office comedy, but that sense of you have this sense of place and you can have a distance from it, you know? But those party scenes are so claustrophobic and suspenseful and almost Hitchcockian. But to make that choice so far in advance, and even, Adam, for you, the acting is so different. That sense of when you come out and you say...

how's our baby like it's such a great like i don't know where the fuck i am right but but clearly i have a baby right like yeah it's such and the the speed at which you have to come up to knowledge as your innie is taking it in like the idea that you guys did that week one blows my mind

I remember doing quite a bit of experimentation at those party scenes. Like, remember that rig I almost was going to wear for some of it, but it just ended up being too cumbersome? Yeah, we had this sort of helmet cam type thing we used in, I think, in the first episode for Helly's point of view when she's trying to get out the emergency exit. That's right.

where the helmet would have a camera on it so you could actually see your hands and everything. Oh, wow. Like a GoPro. Yeah, yeah. Right. So the person's walking around kind of like a camera robot or something. And that didn't work. And I remember – that's what I'm saying. I remember us sort of improvising and going, okay, let's just do – we'll do handheld here. We'll do the Steadicam here. And, I mean, talking about that part of the episode –

I agree. Adam is like having to – every second he's having to kind of take in this world. He's recalibrating his relationships. Yeah. And I remember just we'd have that discussion for every scene. Like even when you first see Rickon reading and then you go outside with him and we realize, oh, wait, you've never been outside before. Yeah. But are we going to play that or not? Right. I remember –

I remember trying a take where I was like reacting to the sky and stuff. And it was like, we can't like, we just have to stay on this one track because it became about like six things. And it was just,

And it was also about reacting to the surroundings. But he also can't be found out until he says the wrong name to Cobell. So he can't be- But even that, what a great throwaway though. Like everything else is so intentional with your character, right? Yeah. And then all of a sudden you're just like, I miss Cobell. And he's like, what? No! Why did you-

He doesn't know her by any other name, so just assumes that's who. But I remember, I feel like I've said this on the podcast already a couple of times, but that was the moment where

When we were shooting it, I went to Ben and Patricia and just kind of thought out loud about if the architecture has gotten us to the right place, this moment is going to be the moment where things start to fall. This is going to be so fun for the audience when I call her cobell and not knowing the percentage of whether they'll be with us or not, but knowing like.

this will be so much fun right and it's such an estimation of where the investment is but it all delivered on that investment I mean that that whole episode is such a wonderful delivery on all the investment that the audience had put in as as a member of that audience

It really was such a satisfying ride. Even Turturro, like being like car. Yeah. That's so fun to watch. Oh my God. Yeah. All of that was just, you're just like, oh, this is so awesome to watch the innies just try and figure this shit out. Yeah. Yeah. I also always look forward to the meeting of Mark and Rickon.

any Mark and Rickon because this idea that Mark on the outside really doesn't like Rickon and Mark on the inside idolizes him. I just loved that juxtaposition. I thought that was such a really smart idea by Dan as a storyline. And so looking forward to this

meeting that finally, you know, any Mark will meet Rick and how will Rick and not knowing it's any Mark react to this version of Mark that like likes him. And, you know, and so that scene for me, and also I just, you know, I'm a Michael Chernus fan who plays Rick and he, there's so much humor in what he's doing. Oh, it's yeah. I mean, to me, the best part of the entire scene, honestly, is that his, his man Friday's name is Balfe. Oh,

Oh, I know. What is it? It's not even a name. I wrote Balfe down this morning while watching the episode. It's my favorite, too. Yeah. No, the name Balfe is just... What is that, like, was it Ralph? And then he just... No, it's Balfe, yeah.

Balfe. Okay. But that's a Dan Erickson in names is just, it's just a thing. He's great at it. I mean, also he says prepare the neti pot because his throat, he just like does this thing after he's finished his reading that it's taken a lot out of him and he has to regroup. But then he's outside and then he confides in Mark that he's, you know, insecure about it. You know, I'm like a sad hamburger waiter. Yeah.

That's the interesting, really interesting is that suddenly we see that Ricken is self-aware and aware of his relationship with Mark and where it is and how he sees him. Right. Yeah. So that, I think you're right though, that the,

It was the writing of this episode that brings together all these threads that makes it satisfying. I mean, honestly, because when I watch it, I just watched it last night and I was like, all right, you know, it flows and it works and it builds. And there are places where it like builds to crescendos and then kind of resets and then builds again tension wise. But really what I think is interesting.

The thing about the episode that people like is that it's bringing together all these stories. You know what I mean? If you looked at it, if you said to somebody, hey, this is a great episode of TV, watch this out of context, it would really be like, okay, there's a guy driving and there's a guy talking. Right, right, right. You know, but I think what it is for the fans of the show, it seems is that it's very satisfying to see

You know, all these things come together. And of course, what Mark learns, what any Mark learns. And again, when we were shooting it, it was a little bit of a kind of a shot in the dark in terms of like how much we could actually get away with in terms of like stopping the tension or slowing down to like have the scene with Devin where you have to talk about who you, you know, who you are, where she's telling you who you are. Sure. And you're also editing it together before you have a sense of

of what the audience's investment will ultimately be. In other words, television in sort of the sense that it happened before streaming, like when you think about Seinfeld or those kinds of episodes, it's all sort of happening in real time. And so you're getting a sense of,

It's how Urkel becomes the centerpiece of family matter. You're understanding what the audience is responding to, and you're adjusting, not necessarily in deference to that, but accordingly to what people are responding to. You did that in a vacuum and did it like, I mean, believe me, it's not perfect. I do have some bones to pick. Okay.

Okay, let's take a quick reflection break. And when we come back, we'll get John's notes on the rest of the season.

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You're free to discover your way. And that's what running is all about. Run your way at newbalance.com slash running. Okay, we're back. And John, do you have some notes for us for season one? I mean, it's not really the... These are not foundational necessarily. It's really just one note. And it's really not the whole season. It's really...

It's focused more on episode nine. And the whole season is so considered in each character. When it comes to giving the innies time, why would you pick the character with the shortest wingspan? That's a great question. You got Turturro there who's lanky as hell. I mean, he's got, he's a half pterodactyl. Yeah. He could have stood there like Wembignana dunking.

And you're in the meeting and you say, let me grab the guy. Clearly, he's going to have the hardest time bridging this gap. 100%. Poor Dylan. 100%. Dylan is... It's the only note. And listen, I do have a sub stack dedicated to this.

I appreciate it if you guys would at least subscribe. Honestly, I never even thought about that other than Dylan was so, he really wanted to do it. He really felt like he was the man. Yeah, he's super confident. And I'll tell you something. When we designed that set, we literally had Zach Cherry go into that room to stretch his arms out so he could get the exact length for his arms. Wow. That's so smart. Because he had to. He had to do that. Yeah.

And I love that they were at disparate heights. You know, you would almost think like when someone goes in there to build those switches that they would have, that there'd be a sort of symmetry to it. But the idea that he had to go one up and then one down, I was just like, that's so weird.

fucking perfect. Yeah. It looks painful. Painful. It's horrible. Yeah. Jeff Mann, who is a production designer who came on for the later part of the season, came in and he's a guy I've worked with over the years a lot and that was his brainchild and he just really got that full kind of weird

retro 80s-ish vibe in that room too. Ben, you're saying Jeff Mann kind of designed the control room. Was there any Star Trek influence in the control room? Well, I mean, there's no like literal Star Trek influence, but for me, I think everything comes back to Star Trek. It's like weirdly just like it's such a huge thing in my life that I'm so obsessed with, the original series. Yeah. And so...

Even when we were making the hallways and I'm such a Trekkie, I have the plans of what they had on stage nine at Paramount where they had the bridge and the hallway and sick bay and all of it. That's awesome. Fascinating to me how there was only just one little hallway section. So Jeremy Hindle, our production designer, and I talked about that a lot when we were creating all the hallways saying, okay, we're going to have to reuse these a lot and we'll have to figure out ways to –

And so anyway, yeah, the room was really Jeff coming in and he had a real sense for that. And I think we wanted to make sure that the monitors were CRT monitors. And we don't know. We just don't know what what this room is really about.

I love the dichotomy of, you know, it's such a futuristic technology and sort of this dystopian. And then you go into that control room and you're like, is this where Alan Turing did the code breaking? Like there is a certain 1940s, 1950s kind of switchboard vibe. Like, oh, I'll just take out this one fuse and put it over here and flip that down. You're just like, that's, wait, in the future? They've gone crazy.

you know, analog. Yeah. And being in there, every little switch and button did feel, it felt like we were walking into like 1973 or something. And also all those books we would pull out and flip through, those were complete, just filled with specific instructions and procedures and stuff. Yeah. There actually was a real procedure that he did. All of those steps were

in terms of like the, you know, what he had to learn. Oh, those aren't like, those books aren't lorem ipsum, like Latin nonsense? They're not because we also know, even with the trailer that's out for season two now, people freeze the frame, like on the, there's like a newspaper in the trailer and they freeze frame and they read like all the, what's written there. So we knew that the handbooks and all that stuff

I didn't know that it would happen, but I assumed it might happen if people like the show. And Kat Miller, our props person, would work with Dan Erickson to make sure that all of the writing in every page of anything you read is real. So, yeah. And we wanted to also give Zach something to actually do. Because when you're shooting something like that, it's like you have to get all the little pieces, right? So if you have an actual...

Series of things he has to do it makes it easier to shoot it also because you know that you're covering each bit of action Right, and so we did that with him and then I would be lying though if I said that I did not many Times over the course of making the show as we were getting ready to put it out in the world I was nervous that people would buy that whole thing on the

Honestly. Oh, you buy it 1,000%. I know, but I was really like, the things you're saying about, hey, it looks like it could be Alan Turing or that. On the flip side, if somebody didn't buy the show, be like, what the hell? It looks like, you know. Right, right. That's what makes it so great. So that's what was a relief when people were bought into the reality of the show that when they get to this crazy control room that it really, they believe. Listen, we buy into the whole, like, I still don't understand what they do.

Right. What cleaning? Well, I don't know what any of this is. Right. And that's important. You're still invested in it. Yeah. And that's important because we also, you know, want the audience to feel that even though you don't know what this stuff is about, there's a reason for it and it's going somewhere. I mean, that's the sort of the bigger picture of what is it all about. Right.

Yeah, yeah, totally. So this is really interesting because in this next scene, we get to see Heli's Audi sort of in her natural environment. She's in a formal dress. She has an updo. She's talking to Natalie, the woman who's been the liaison between Cobell and the board all along.

And it quickly becomes clear that Helly is at the Lumen Gala. And actually, not only is she at the gala, she is actually Helena Egan. And the gala is dedicated to her contributions to the technology of severance. What was your impression on the set when you came and visited? I was there. And so in that scene when Helly R comes in and she's sort of walking through the gallery of her severed story, it's so...

overwhelming because it's practical. You know, so many times you go into those sets and they are, I don't want to say shortcuts, but they don't have to create the fullness of experience. So when I walked in and I saw the severance story for hell, they are,

And it's all laid out across and it's, it's vast. I mean, it's not a lot of times you walk on a set too. And you'll be like, I had no idea that the set of the price is right. It's so tiny. Like, or the, Oh, that wheel, it looked gigantic. It's, it's like a, so I was impressed by the scale of,

And then even like that little, the scene where the one I was watching was when Patricia first interrupts Helyar and as she's about to walk out. Oh yeah. Let's, let's take a listen to that scene. Is it you? What are you talking about? It is you, isn't it? I'm going to kill your company. Your company? How do you think you are? No. Your friends are going to suffer. No.

She's walking out. She does that one look back.

And you're just like, what a great moment of like, she's about to burn this fucking place down. And she just does this quick look back like, okay, I guess we're good. Just like, boom. It just, so I was really excited when I walked around it because of the feel of it was so evocative as you're walking it.

Yeah, those cubes are really cool. And that was also Jeff Mann. I think he was inspired by some – there was like some expo in Montreal in the late 60s. He showed me these pictures of like black and white photography that was lit up on cubes. And so that was his inspiration for that. Oh, yeah. You know, I didn't even think of that. But now that you say it, it does. It's got that like 60s vibe.

the world of the future presentation. It's got like a real expo vibe to it. Yeah. And also those pictures, we haven't talked about this, but the black and white pictures that Milchick has been taking all season. So if you remember in episode two, when right when she's getting the severance procedure, Milchick takes a picture of her in the operating room and you see that on one of the cubes and you, so the idea was every time we'd shoot one of those scenes across the season, we would, you know, shoot the shots with our still photographers who are amazing and,

And then Jeff Mann, who was doing production design at this point on the show, created these cubes. And it really had this feeling, yeah, like you were saying, John, of like this sort of world of tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, it was fun to also figure out how to tell that story and how Helly would basically come to the realization in that moment when she sees Helly, a severed story, that, oh my god, this is what her whole life has been. Right.

Yeah, and sort of the crass commercialization of her entire life so far and that she's just this prop, essentially. And that Jon Stewart was at the gala walking around in the background. I was just walking around. I was checking out the expo trying to see if that was something I was interested in trying, this severance experience. I thought it was interesting when her father was talking to her

You know, you have this relationship between the innies and the outies and the people that are experiencing it. But the way that he spoke of her innie as a separate entity that had nothing to do with her, you know, I think he was talking about when that woman tried to hurt you, you know, when you're talking about the suicide attempt. Yeah. Oh, you know what? I would like to listen to that scene. She's in here, sir. Hello now. You look so nice. I can feel. Thank you.

I thought that was such an interesting way for him to relate to this technology that I'm assuming he has a hand in.

You know, that he has such disdain for this creature. Yeah. I mean, definitely you get the sense that the innies are looked on as less than human. Right. Right. You know, they're looked on as these creations and yet he's created them. You're right. So that's right. So like, yeah. And so like, what is this guy up to? What is that about? And I think that in this bathroom scene, there's this.

sort of connection he's having with her. You can see he's obviously a strange guy, but he has this sort of real connection with her

Helly who he would think is Helena but is is Helly and I think that's something That's there and interesting because you know, you don't know what kind of relationship he has with his daughter You get the sense It's not a very I mean the fact that his daughter's in the in the ladies room and the assistant opens the door and says she's in Here and he just comes in right in the ladies room. Yeah, I'm just excited to find out if we are going to see him at his revolving

When he goes, you'll be there at my revolving. And I'm like, what is this now? Wait, what? John, I hope you'll come to my revolving when I haven't. I'm going to come to all of your revolvings. I really, you know, a life well lived is one with a fully attended revolving. That's what I'm talking about. Those little things.

moments of where you really do lay out the, it's the absurdity of our rituals, the absurdity sometimes of how we go through these performances at different points in our careers and our lives that are meant to be infused with all this meaning. And when you really strip them away, you're like, oh, it's a revolving.

It's a revolving to someone else. It's just a revolving. Yeah. Well, to me, that's like the basic idea of the show that I always was drawn to is that you meet these people and it is kind of like a workplace kind of work a day comedy vibe in the beginning of the banter and everything. But these people don't know who they are, what they're doing, why they're there.

That's kind of a metaphor for life, you know? No question. And I think that to me is always what's sort of resonated. Also, we should take note of how great Brit is in these scenes and with her father coming in the bathroom and seeing Helly just trying to fucking figure out

what's going who this guy is first of all and what the fuck he's talking about just everything she's just doing the acting stellar work that you guys do in in episode nine is just beautifully rendered with how small those little realizations have to be you know you're you're basically undercover spies that are working this party as agents and watching you negotiate that

figuring out who to trust, what the different relationships, how to be reserved, but still carry on that kind of human bargain we make in terms of conversation of like the right nonverbal agreement. And also Turturro in the episode, he doesn't have a single line except for Bert at the end. So the whole episode is just John Turturro. That was a heartbreaking one, to be honest. Like the Turturro arc in that,

Hellier is surrounded by community. Mark, as cut off as he is after his wife's death, is surrounded by community. John has a dog. It's nice, but he's alone. And he's got a box of memories and a dog and a love that he can't have. And it just breaks your heart. And then to know that his love is so fun to imitate.

Worldwide. Worldwide. How many times on set do you, muck? How can you not do the Christopher Walken? But that really to me was so stark is to see his light and his paintings are dark and that hallway where you see the light and you just felt like so badly for his loneliness. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And he has such an inner life as an actor. It's just, you just put the camera on his face and there's just so much depth there, you know? Yeah. John is unbelievable. And watching John figure out how to drive the car. It's the best. It's the best. Even the power windows at one point, I think he figures out like the power windows.

And it's also the question of like, what does a severed person know intuitively? Right. He obviously has some intuitive muscle memory of doing this. Yeah. Has driven. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's always an interesting question for the actors. I think in every scene is that they get to choose sort of like what, how much comes through or how much doesn't sometimes it's more in the forefront. Yeah. And you know, it's really interesting because we talked to John to Turo about this when we had him on for the last episode, but,

We didn't want to spoil 109 at that time. So why don't we listen to that right now? When you finally come to consciousness in Irving's apartment and you find that trunk. Right, right. And we find all of this information that Irving has been amassing and we find some little clues to Irving's

past somehow. One of the things we see is a photograph. Do you want to talk about that? That's the photograph of my father. It's the photograph of your father, yeah. Right, yeah, in the Navy. And I brought his actually uniform back

uh from world war ii to the set we that's the first time and the only time i i will you know use that i mean i thought that was so special that that you did that and that moment of okay what does this mean what is this history who is that person you know it's probably irving's father that it's actually your your your father uh just kind of adds another layer to it

And where we leave Irving at the end of episode nine is it's such a big part of the end of the season besides the cliffhanger that Adam has of what he says is you pounding on that door. I think it's kind of symbolic of the whole show. Everybody's sort of pounding on that door. Everyone's in this raw state in a way. And so you are connected to the other people at the same time. We're all going through that together.

in different ways. I mean, Dylan is allowing us, you know, to do that. And so it was just an interesting challenge, I think, for all of us as actors to be embodying this other part of ourselves, um,

you know, and not knowing exactly how to do that. Like drive a car, you know, find a place. You had to drive a car instinctually and you had to figure it out. Right. Yeah. You came in good direction. You were like, just try that, you know, and that was kind of fun, you know, in a way. It was great. It was great to watch you do that. And then that, that raw emotion at the end, I mean, anybody,

who has ever felt anything in their life for a real love for somebody else. Yeah. And the pain of a relationship that doesn't go well, who's ever been there knows what that is. And you just, you did that and you did it in a, out of context, shooting it was not easy because we shoot the show so out of order and in such bits and pieces, you just had to show up one night and do that. Yeah.

Totally disconnected from the rest of that episode. Yeah. Well, it's, you know, sometimes it's piecemeal work. That's why it's good when you've thought through the whole thing, you know, before. Yeah, right. You know, and you have someone helping guide you there.

But should we go back at the very end, just quickly, the very end is Dylan there, you know, as Milchick is trying to, and you were talking about like the perks that Milchick is offering him as he's trying to get into the security room. Should we play that? Maybe just to play one bit of that? I bet the tempers were disappointing. I can still get you back in there. I can get you any perk you want, Dylan. Hey, there's stuff you don't even know about.

There's paintball. There's coffee cozies. Dylan, come on. Just say the word and I'll get you a coffee cozy literally right now, Dylan. Come on, man. I want my... You have two others. I can tell you about them. Just open the door and I'll tell you their names. Come on, Dylan. Dylan? It's so fucked up. It, again, speaks to imagine you think you're dealing with idiots. You think you're dealing with...

idiot children that a coffee cozy would be enough this person has risked everything to open up the floodgates to open up the Indian he's like I got a coffee cozy he's like I want to know my fucking children yeah and he didn't know what I almost thought there was going to be he was going to be like I can get your children coffee cozies like that he wasn't going to understand but you realize oh Milchik understands

He just thinks the innies aren't capable of that level of emotional life. Yeah. I think also the coffee cozies probably worked and would have worked before he had seen his kid in real life. Right. And then he's been right.

Yeah, Milchik letting him see his kid or getting him in a situation where he could potentially meet his kid is an irreversible fuck up. And the thing really is kind of that when each of the MDR people, all four of them kind of get exposed to love and affection of some sort, that is when they all kind of start turning a little bit, when they get a taste of this humanism.

human experience. That's when they start pulling away from Lumen in one way or another. And I hate to say this, but there are times that The Daily Show, when we reward the staff, similarly to how Milchick does,

And that we have had waffle parties for the staff. And when I sing, well, I can't tell you how, when I saw that my heart sank, I thought, well, geez, we, we got that. There's that like, I don't know if you guys have ever seen it. It's like dingles and waffles truck.

Yes. Right. You know, after like a particularly long run, we'll bring in the dingles and waffle truck. Sure. And then as I'm watching, you know, Milchick promising, like, I can get you all the waffles you need. I'm like, oh, dear God. Am I Milchick? Is that what this is? If you think we didn't get the waffle truck brought over to the Severn set, you would be wrong.

The day I was there, Ben had gotten you guys ice cream. That's right. We went and got some ice cream. There was an ice cream truck. Right. I got to partake in the ice. I got the reward. You got the reward. Without ever having to go through the trials and tribulations. Yeah. Yeah. What did you feel when Adam at the end says she's alive and that moment happened? I mean, it's just hard. It's heartbreaking because it all like, it's one thing.

to want to struggle to figure out what's happening, but then to think that involved in that is the greatest betrayal that a human could maybe undergo. It's one thing to think like, Hey, these guys are fucking with us. Like waffle party. That's not so great. I don't like how that moves it from dystopian experiment to true malevolence, like true evil. Now, now you're like, Oh,

This is an evil that's beyond something we can even comprehend. Yeah, because we've seen Mark kind of gradually become disillusioned with the company. But I think that he figured he had hit the ceiling.

of the depravity of this place when he decided, when they all did the overtime contingency and came out there stumbling across this photo. I don't think the furthest reaches of his imagination ever imagined that someone could do something this horrifying or a company could do something that's terrible. You know what struck me? And I don't know if you guys have, if this is in the lore or however you do it, but it was the first time that I thought, oh, Lumen is setting people up

for severance because You're his wife dying is the event that drove him to sever. So now you're thinking a wait are they conducting Experiments and doing shit to people to drive them to sever like is that also being Manipulated come on. No, no, no questions Answer me

We're not on your show, John. We don't have to. That's right. This is our show, bro. Tracy said, all she said to me, I said I was doing this today, Tracy, my wife. She goes, I want every episode and I want it in bulk. I want to binge it. I don't want to sit through week to week. You will get those episodes and you will get them in full.

John, this has been so much fun. Thank you for doing this. Yeah, thanks, man. Guys, it's my absolute pleasure. I know we're friends and everything, but I continue to be impressed and just sort of grateful for what you do. Thank you, friend. Much appreciated. And I can't wait to do this again season two, brothers. Definitely. Truly an honor. Bye, John. All right. Take it easy. All right.

All right. Well, that's it for season one of the podcast. Wow. Congratulations. Yeah. Congrats. And if you're listening to this on the day it dropped, the premiere of season two is tomorrow, January 17th on Apple TV+. Holy cow. It's finally here. Yes. I mean, it seemed like it never would come. Yeah. And we're dropping a new podcast episode about the premiere right after it airs. And we'll continue to drop new podcast episodes every week.

with some incredible new guests. That's right. They come out right after the show, so you can listen right away. And I just want to thank all the guests who joined us for the recap of Season 1, and thank everybody for listening. Yeah. And I hope you guys enjoy Season 2.

The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions, and Great Scott Productions. If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, the Odyssey app, or your other podcast platform of choice. Our executive producers are Barry Finkel, Henry Malofsky, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Leah Reese-Dennis. The show is produced by Zandra Ellen and Naomi Scott. This episode was mixed and mastered by Chris Basil.

We have additional engineering from Javi Crucis and Davy Sumner. Show clips are courtesy of Fifth Season. Music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael LeVay, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Shuff. And the team at Red Hour, John Lesher, Carolina Pesikov, Jean-Pablo Antonetti, Martin Valderutten, Ashwin Ramesh,

Maria Noto, John Baker, and Oliver Ager. And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christy Smith at Rise Management. We also had additional production help from Gabrielle Lewis, Ben Goldberg, Stephen Key, Kristen Torres, Emmanuel Hapsis, Marie-Alexa Cavanaugh, and Melissa Slaughter. I'm Adam Scott. I'm Ben Stiller. And we will see you next time.

Hey Adam. Yeah? Is your experience at work a bit dysfunctional lately? I don't know, I think it's... it's... Okay, I'll take that as a yes. Your team could undergo a highly controversial surgical procedure that would mercifully sever any and all memories of that work experience from your home lives.

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