55. Ideas & Empathy: How to Design and Communicate with Others in Mind
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The CEO at the time once talked to us about how hard it was to reliably and predictably be creative. These concepts are often antithetical to each other, and they apply across different industries. Today, we will explore how design thinking can help with this challenge. I'm Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

I am super excited today to speak with Sarah Stein Greenberg, who is the executive director of the Hasso Plattner Institute of Design at Stanford University, known more simply as the D School. While leading this incredibly talented and creative organization, Sarah found time to author an awesome book called Creative Acts for Curious People, How to Think, Create, and Lead in Unconventional Ways.

Welcome, Sarah. Thanks for joining me. I am so excited for our conversation today.

Matt, thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. And if you could see my face right now, you would see I have a huge smile on it because I'm very excited for our conversation. Well, I've got a big smile too. So let's get started. The d.school is all about helping students and executives learn design thinking skills. For those who aren't familiar with design thinking, can you define what it is and how it can help us personally as well as professionally? I'm happy to start there.

So many people have this idea of design that is really about the kind of visual aspects of the world around us, like the aesthetic qualities or maybe the way that your room feels after you rearrange the furniture, right? And those are definitely aspects of design. And design has, through its long history, really been kind of

poking its nose into lots of different places. And what I mean by that is those same ways that you can think about being intentional about what your room feels like or how your phone is designed, the way in which a glass fits in your hand perfectly, those same ideas can actually be extrapolated and used to design experiences and

and services, and even systems. And so we're in an era now where design is being used not just for all of those aesthetic purposes, but also to think about what should be created. How do we actually deliver services that are better for the people who are accessing them or less expensive? Thinking about, you know, how do we actually like redesign a complex system? For example, one of our fellows a few years ago was working on redesigning the way in which substitute teaching happens in the United States.

Like really interesting, complex, multivariable kinds of projects and problems. And so design thinking is kind of the vocabulary that sits underneath that, right? It's a way that people who may have a formal design training or may come from lots of different disciplines

can start to use the same sets of practices, both the skills and the mindsets of design to improve those services, improve those products, and even think really creatively about like what the future of your business could look like or how you might tackle a large social system.

Wow, it sounds like the design thinking principles can be applied to so many different processes and systems. And in what you just described, it really underlies that there's a science to it. It's creative and it's artful, but there's also a science to it. And I personally have been exposed to it and find it fascinating for how we can design experiences for people. So thank you for sharing that.

We recently spoke with GSB professor Chip Heath about the curse of knowledge, knowing too much about what we do and share and how it can lead to miscommunication and a lack of connection with those that we're communicating with.

Your focus in your book on widening our lens strikes me as a way to combat that curse of knowledge and be more creative and relevant at the same time. Can you tell us a bit more about what you mean by widening our lens and how can we actually do that?

Sure. You know, widening your lens, I use that framing just because as somebody who is a photographer, I think a lot about how your perspective is really altered by not just the equipment that you're using, but let you know where you're standing in relation to the subject or the scene that you're trying to capture.

And in design, you want to have a strong point of view about what you're making. You want to understand the needs, you want to understand the context, and then you want to say like, "Oh, I think that it's going to work best if..." And then you really establish that strong point of view, some of those foundational principles.

But one of the things you have to recognize is that you don't have the view, you have a point of view, right? And really understanding like, well, how is someone else going to experience this product or service that I'm developing? Or what if I think about what the effect of launching this thing might be a few generations into the future?

And so there are all different ways to stretch your perspective, both to be thinking about how could this be better designed? How could it be more effective? How could it be more relevant for more people? And even thinking about what are some of the potentially unintended consequences that could happen as I create this fantastic, popular, successful piece of work, whatever it is that you're doing.

So, widening your lens is one of those core ideas in human-centered design in that very often you are not designing for yourself. And you kind of have to get out of your own way to effectively design with others' needs in mind. And so that idea of shifting your perspective, widening your aperture, your lens is just critically important.

There are lots of ways to do that. And some of the practices in creative acts are great ways to start. There are practices around, you know, how do you have a very open-ended interview interaction? How do you try to shadow someone for a day? I heard you say two things that I think are absolutely critical to creating

getting out of that curse of knowledge and how design thinking and being creative can help. And one is understanding that it is other focused. You talked about human centered design. So it's not you're not designing for yourself. You're designing for others. When you communicate, you're not communicating for yourself. You're communicating for others. So first, taking that perspective. And then the second thing you said, which is so important, is to get out of your own way.

that we actually make it more difficult for ourselves. And it sounds like some of the activities in your book and that are practiced at the d.school can really help people with both parts of that, focusing in the right place and then getting out of our own way. Did I get that right?

Yeah, that's exactly right. And we all bring our own life experience, our own biases, our own opinions and perspectives. And so you often need a way to-- similar to how we talk about deferring judgment when you're trying to generate new ideas, you actually need to set aside those assumptions that you have, those biases, those perspectives that you have to make sure they are not too influential in your interpretation of or understanding of what the needs are.

As I think about what we've talked about so far, part of the design process really involves introspection and reflection. I'm curious if you can articulate why this is so important and what are some of the specific tools and techniques that you recommend to help people do this type of self-learning? Well, it's interesting that you just framed up this idea of self-learning because I often think about design as a process of learning in general.

So, you know, when you're starting out to design something new, whether it's reimagining the substitute teaching ecosystem, like I mentioned, our former fellow Jill Violet did, or something much more concrete and physical, you're embarking on a journey of learning, right? You are starting out with less understanding and information and insight and fewer ideas about where you're going to land, the thing that you're going to create, then you will ultimately find yourself with.

And just like any other learning process, understanding what's going well and what's not going well and what could be improved, that is a vital part of really having ownership over that process.

So we do a lot of work with our students and other learners around tools for reflection, thinking about, you know, what just happened and was it as productive, as effective, as powerful as we hoped that it was? What could be improved? And maybe even then some bigger picture questions. So I'll give you two examples of particular practices that we use.

So one is an individual practice, which is called What, So What, Now What, which Leticia Britos-Caballero and some of her colleagues created. And what they found is that when they ask students to just kind of generically reflect in an open-ended way on how class went or what they learned or, you know, what a particular process, let's say they were teaching prototyping that day. Okay, how did that go?

The students come up with some interesting things, but when they give them a particular framework, like what, so what now, what, which is simply the idea that you separate, you disaggregate and distinguish between those three different buckets. So what just happened? Name all the details. What did it smell like? What was the feeling that you had specifically what happened? And then, so what, which is like, well, what were the implications? What did that lead to? What happened as a result?

And now what? Which is like, well, what does that mean? What does that suggest for the future? How do you feel about that? Those bigger introspective questions. With that particular rubric, the reflections that the students do are of much higher caliber and much more powerful as a learning tool, as a self-learning tool, as you just said. So that's one great example of a practice on the personal level.

And then one of my favorites from this collection is called I Like, I Wish How To. And that is a practice that we've been using at the d.school from the very beginning. And it really is wonderful as a group to go through an experience together. That could be a day of class. That could be a workshop. That could be a tough year at your company.

and do a group reflection using those prompts, I like, I wish, and how to. And that is a non-judgmental or less judgmental way to still be able to say like, hey, here's what went well, here's what I wish for, and here are some other ideas that are starting to come up about what we could do to change things or improve things.

Well, I think we have bingo now because anybody who knows me and listens to this podcast knows that what, so what, now what is a mantra that I sing the praises for all the time. And I love how you apply it in terms of self-learning, in terms of feedback and introspection. And having tools, as you've discussed, to help us do that is really, really helpful because for many of us, it's really hard to take the time to do that reflection and having specific tools can help.

In thinking back to all of the various activities and techniques in your book, can you identify one that has really helped you personally? Yeah, you know, I mentioned I Like I Wish, which has been quite important for me. The category that I'll share that I think has been really useful for me, particularly in a leadership role to remember to practice consistently, is around...

using those first few minutes of any meeting or work session to set the right tone and to get people already starting to practice some of the behaviors that you want to see come out in the work to be done through some kind of warm-up activity.

And I have kind of a strong point of view that like icebreakers are fine, but usually what I'm doing is not trying to just get people to break the ice and know each other a little bit. I'm actually wanting people to start to rehearse the same behavior that we need to then practice as a group.

So the activities that are around building trust with someone, that's a wonderful warm up to do if you're going to have a group then start to launch an interviewing process. Or even if you're just going to try to make a hard decision, right? That's a really good time to use that as a team.

Or the activity that's around coming up with lots of metaphors and similes for complex problems or topics. That is a great warm-up to use when you are launching a storytelling session or you are trying to figure out how are you going to present your really cool but kind of esoteric new idea to a group of people.

So I like to really match the nature of the warmup with the work at hand. And if I'm the one who's leading the class or the workshop, I'll then be very transparent for folks. Hey, the reason we started with this is because it's going to lead right into what we're doing today as a group. And I find that that helps people get like right into the right mindset and the right kind of skillset for the work at hand.

I find that so refreshing because so many people do icebreakers just for the sake of doing an icebreaker. And this notion that the activity you initiate with can actually serve as a signpost for what's to come or get people to rehearse and practice skills that you'll be developing online.

I think is really powerful and I encourage everybody to think about when you initiate a meeting, a presentation, any kind of collaboration, how can you start with some kind of activity that gets people focused and engaged but also begins working on the skills you're trying to build. I really like that idea and will immediately begin applying it in the work I do. Before we end, I'd like to ask you the same three questions I ask everyone who joins me. Are you up for that?

Yes. Excellent. All right, here we go. Question one. If you were to capture the best communication advice you ever received as a five to seven word presentation slide title, what would it be? Immediately what comes to mind is just a slide that says pause more. Tell me more about that. I'm going to take a pause before you answer, though.

Okay, go ahead. Tell me more. I love talking about this topic. I love talking about this material. When I get excited about something, I just get on a roll and often string things together that deserve more breathing room. And as a communicator, I am working on trying to slow down and pause more.

Silence is such a powerful tool in multiple dimensions, whether it's giving someone else the chance for their brain to catch up, whether it's for you to slow down and then be able to observe new things and take in detail in a way that you weren't previously.

So I think that my excitement and enthusiasm sometimes just revs up the speed and the pace at which I'm talking. And really just slowing down and pausing occasionally can be so helpful. Not only does it help you think and formulate, but it also helps the audience as well. And I am in your camp. When I get excited, I talk more than less. Let me ask question number two. Who is a communicator that you admire and why?

The first person who jumps to mind right now is Phoebe Robinson, who is a comedian and a TV host, and she's now running a book imprint, publishing imprint. I feel like she just has this incredible facility with language.

And she's constantly inventing words, and yet you completely understand what she's saying. And somehow it's like so much funnier because it's in this sort of like language of her own invention. And it's really bawdy and satirical and it's just very, very funny.

And I suspect that she is making so many specific decisions about her language choice and her created words. And I'd love to just get a peek inside her brain and understand more about how she thinks about these things. What a true compliment when you want to really understand somebody's thought process that leads them to their communication. Let me ask the final question. What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?

maybe the most important ingredient is caring about the topic. I think the second one for me is about distilling the content into its barest form.

And then for me, I'm often communicating in a visual medium as are so many people. So I think I immediately just leapt to like thinking about designing a keynote or a PowerPoint presentation, which so many people have, we've as a human race, we have wasted so much time trying to read

size eight font on a slide. It's like, it's just so sad. So when I'm thinking about using visuals to amplify the presentation I'm giving or the ideas I'm trying to share, I think about what I'm excited about, my passion or commitment to the material. I mean, and this is true, even if I'm giving like a budget report in the Dean's office, I'm like, I want to see some student faces on that. I want to always be reminded of the purpose behind the work

that we're doing and then think about the simplest form that I can use and the fewest words and how much of it can become visual. So let me go back and try to boil that down into three simple ingredients. I think it's about interest and passion for the content, simplicity and bringing things to life in a visual way.

I think those are three very powerful ingredients and can be very helpful for all the types of communication that we do.

Well, Sarah, I have to thank you so much. Your ideas are super practical, super helpful, and really, really fun. I've enjoyed our conversation. I appreciate your insights into design, creativity, and communication. And I encourage everyone to get Sarah's book, Creative Acts for Curious People. And then you have to immediately read it and apply these incredibly useful lessons and activities. Thank you for joining us and thank you for sharing.

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, Matt. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast produced by Stanford University's Graduate School of Business. For more information and episodes, visit gsb.stanford.edu or subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts. Finally, find us on social media at stanford.gsb.

Hi, Matt here. Quick question for you. When was the last time you took a step back from your daily life and took the time to invest in yourself and your education?

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