TWiT 999: Bananas and Browsers - CA AI Bill Veto, Meta's Orion, FTC Vs. Fake Reviews
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It's time for twitter. This week in tech, we're going to kick things off with a visit with my son saw hank, his new book is coming out and speaking the new books we also have party awesome on SHE is the author of a brand new book about A I fascinate and called supremacy denies how my internet tourney joins us. And from windows central. Daniel rubino, lots of A I talk, but lots of other stories to twit is next.

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This is to IT this week and check episode nine hundred ninety nine, recorded sunday, september twenty nine, twenty twenty four, bananas and browsers.

It's time for twenty this week in tech the show we get together with some of the best names in the tech journalism business. Talk about the week's tech news. I'm going to take format a little bit briefly here because I am a proud pop and my son's a new cookbook is coming out on tuesday.

And I thought I just I thought I get salt hank on just to talk a little bit about solve hank about the cookbook, give a little bit of A A plugged and we'll get to our panel. We've got a great panel for you. Ladies and gentleman, i'd like to introduced you to somebody I know pretty well.

One time member of the family since he was born, I known this guy, my son Henry report, Better known as salt hank. It's going the author of a brand who cook where which comes out tuesday from Simon and custer. Yes, i'll hank.

A five napkin situation. Oh, look at this. Look at there is stuff. Is mouth disgusting? It's more than a cookbook.

Those flip through little bit because it's really a but I mean, put this on your coffee table. Oh my god, what is that? Putin is like basically animal fries.

It's recreated animal fries from in an apple. We had to come feral fries from copyright for reasons that they are like just very warm aversions of animal fries. That's one of the honestly, my favorite somebody who's asking kids in our disc.

Don't parents to teach their kids had a cooks so they can get to make lunch for them? I want to tell you something I have never had nothing hang has made that's not completely gure. I don't think i've had your french rise, which are a miracle.

You cook them like three times. Well, IT depends what kind of french for making. If you do choose strings, cook on once.

If you do not like the mission and star fries where you boil them, take him out frame. Take him out and frame again. That's the three time thing Henry on his house boat where he does his his salt tank studio.

It's actually called the salt lovers club. We should get that straight. The sault lovers club. Well, that's just the salt company such a little bit separate that we sell seasonings and pickles and stuff like that and that's the name of IT.

Yeah, soul, I was club and we have a big neon sign above kind of work yeah like when I see you cooking on the install, you are there in front of your sign that says the salt lovers club right there like that. Well, that's just to promote the heck out of the sock company. But right now i'm like not but isn't the sault company really just like a sideline for salt? hank? What do you mean like a side hustle side business, side hustle business burgers? And yes, it's kind of like that.

I mean, if if you want to be like if you want to start a product that's kind of a way into like the longevity of the informative world a little bit and then you can you know make cool stuff like pickles. I literally wait and to send you some of these pics this later. I am an investor in the picture.

Have to like legally of that. I think I have I think ftc regulations say that if i'm gonna tell you promote something that I have a financial state and investor in all this. You gave me my first camera.

So technically you basically like a chunk of this entire business. Well, we're okay. When do what I get paid off?

Owning a chuck .

means mainly I just, yes, I gave you cameras what you are into deep drones. You have drones. I want to supporting this stuff.

And little did I know, but you, when you were a kid, all you ever did is watch those extreme food videos on youtube. You are really good food porn. Much math.

My boy, my dad, who loves you now, by the way, is that cool that you become friends with mani medicine? That part pretty mild. I don't know if he knows how crazy IT is for me when he like called me and like doing like here, my hero, you are on his show.

Just that cup a week. Okay, he woke you up. Yeah, I was little. I was laying and bed right there, completely sleep.

You like what's up you on the show? Like what's describe what you're doing, right? And then he's he's like cursing you out for these stake sandwiches and yet he's making IT and it's incredible.

But he thought he was going. I don't know what he was like. Hank got famous for this one sandwich done. True as true for many things. Whatever he wants, he's the king. He's kind of the godfather of like food content, food media as far as the internet goes so he he's got got launched access to say what everyone about anybody yeah, he's a sweet heart.

But honestly, there is, by the way, there you are with matty medicine eating something I had and I get him to come to a video with us looking that dip dipped in casso. Man, that is doing the cook. I recognize those teats.

I little ally didn't cook much at all there in this. I just filming. Then I can go crazy.

I made the background patties, and that will like of things that we chopped up and put the bread about. That money was just going nuts in the kitchen. So if you like foot porn, because this is what Henry grew up on its foot.

N follow salt hank on instagram. Salt under score. Hank, thank you, dad. yes.

And the cook book, get the cook book because the cookbook is out tuesday and you get forty percent off a target right now. You get forty percent off on walmart. What's the sweetest kes? I can't do sweepstakes that's illegal.

So I want you could get buy salt from the salt lover. Little, what you looking at right now. I'm looking at your soul, hank, that call me that.

Oh yeah. This is like the link try thing. Got everything. You can buy the copies. Look at that four person market.

Did you twenty five hundred something? H my god, you and must be killing you. Now, I think I taught me how to.

I didn't a signature before, and I did. I not. okay. Here is october second. Sel, hank will be at the barns and noble and mirror mis, and ago, california cooking. Or you just, do you do reading from your book now I wanted to do pop ups. I thought I would have been like, so cool to like, do.

Or if you buy a block, you get a free sandwich, like, you know, and just make a bunch of sandwich and all these ties, but and nobels kind of doing little chats with people from those things it's going to do reading from a cook book now, then I take the onions and you slice them that he will also be nice. Angeles, on the third of diesel. L branwen oin hunt his sandwiches.

Dy'd join him. Sandford is go book passage up our way on the fifth. We love book passage.

That's one of the best bookstores in the world in chicago and Andersons and north central college on october seventh and in brooklin, october ates. Powerhouse arena rock lands a big one. If anyone knows wishbone kitchen or Olivia, they are giant.

They're going to be cold sting with me for that. So you should come out to that. It's going to be sweet.

And the book comes out tuesday. You could preorder now forty percent off a wall mart. If you go to hank instagram page, you will see that I didn't really get to interview you.

You we're going to do the the regular show now, hank, I think, yeah, do you think I want to come back wednesday on tweet because I know paris a jeff want to hang and I will do. I will interview them and find out how you got into this. Well, wednesday is the first book, or start from the hotel.

It's okay. Ifip, good. You know, kick of me Operate now that OK, I mean, this is the first day of the book to her, but I absolutely that's okay.

Henry, i'm very proud of you. You've been, you've done good sun OK, thank you guys. Listen, alright.

Don't forget saw the hank of five napkin situation. He did not pay me for this ad. By the way, I just, you know, I just thought it's my son.

I could do that. You could do that when israel wants her first. But army olson is here from her daughter's bedroom.

I love IT. Thank eai p for letting letting you use her bedroom tonight. She's gonna so pleased .

to have had to shout out on this weekend time. No.

she's not. No.

she's going will in a few years when he starts listening.

That's right. Prime is the author of a fab. A technology comes to bloomberg. He's written for the journal and many other places, but he just got a brand new book. I either I love the cover of napoli and then IT says, supremacy AI ChatGPT in the race that will change the world.

And this is a fascinating look at the sam Allen at OpenAI about, I mean, there's so much politics, the history is incredible and your timing is pretty good because sams back deck and knows we'll talking about that just a second party. Thanks for staying up late with this. Appreciated also here from editor and chief from windows central magazine, our windows guru, Daniel robo.

Always good to have you on Daniel. thanks. We're joining us .

today having .

yeah there is a little news, a little windows news, little microsoft news. We can talk about just a little bit. Also here, Dennis hal, who is my online attorney host of two podcasts that here, say, culture that come, one of which I was on not so long, there was a lot of fun. Hi denis.

hi. That was a lot of fun. Happy nine hundred ninety nine episode of twit.

Can you did you see .

that I did terrifying.

We are going to do a one thousand, you know, I don't like, I feel it's too self congratulatory orties break all at ten, but people have insisted. So we're going to get some of the old timers on the show next week to people who are on the original twit. Not in one hundred ninety nine episodes ago.

One thousand is next week. But this is pretty good one. There's a nine, nine, nine pretty.

I feel like this is the bottles of beer on the world one.

Thank you. We're not doing IT backwards. I'm not sure had I known when I started that we would be doing a thousand of these.

I might not have might not have signed up for that. I don't know. It's been pretty.

It's been pretty amazing. You know it's been amazing is watching because that's twenty years and twenty years in technology. Years is like a hundred years. I mean, it's watching things happen like crazy.

And the biggest, of course, change has come right at the end, at which is the advent of chatbot, of A I, of deep fakes, of AI imagery. Party y i'm really glad we could get you on. Sam has just written A I manifesto is quite interesting.

The books supremacy starts with sam altman. His youth is he was a very smart, precocious kid and always kind of a bossy IT sounds like always a leader. You tell one anecdo in here of him at a in his high school getting all the water polo guys up and having a stripped down .

to their speedos.

speedos which he got trouble for. But then he kind of talked his way out of.

I guess he was very good at talking .

his way out of trouble still is is yeah you also talk about, sir, to miss a cbs who is deep mind now. But that's one of the things I got from the book is everybody y's moved around a lot, right? AI is a very incestuous business that almost feels like there really are only in fact, somebody told me that there are only five kind of seminal papers that were the foundation for everything we're seeing today.

one of them probably being the transformer paper. Attention is all you need.

That's right. So the point of that was that there isn't any there are any secrets. There's no secret sauce despite what some of these guys would pretend yeah you think sam altman has the secret sauce that his next big thing is, you know they talk about reasoning and this this he didn't call a manifesto, but I think that is the intelligence age that he wrote.

He says in a couple of decades, next couple of decades will be able to do things would have seemed like magic to her grandparents will shout out to Arthur a. Clark. But he makes, I think he makes an interesting point, because we benefit from an society.

Society makes a smarter, more capable. The infrastructure makes a smarter and more capable of any individual. He says, an important and society itself as a form of advanced intelligence.

He also talks about how A I is going to take us to that next level. A I will give people tools to solve hard problems and help us add new stretch to the scuffling of human progress that we couldn't figured out on our own. Tell me from what you've written and from what you've studied of all this. Is this, as some say, just nonsense or or does that make sense?

I think yes, I no, I think he his pitch around using A I to benefit humanity and and sort of lift us out of like improved the wealth of everyone on earth and often uses the word abundance. And from the beginning he has said that if he can build artificial general intelligence that he will help elevate the wealth of billions of people.

This is incredibly grand, almost galactic and scope ambitions for what this technology could bring um and it's interesting that he posted this last week um not too long ago, just before a number of his executives left the company just as he's also trying to raise as much as six point five billion dollars for the company. And I think what this all kind of says to me is that selling AI, you have to sell the future. And that kind of what he's doing, he's selling the future of AI benefiting humanity.

And one of the reasons I wrote this book is when ChatGPT came out, I was, I was all struck by IT. I thought I was amazing um but I think a lot of people didn't know the story. Behind the scenes was that sam and the southern y the founder of deep mind, demis, sobs this t GPT had kind of come as a result of their rivalry to build artificial general intelligence.

But they had both started out with these incredibly altruistic goals of, you know, demis wanted to cure cancer and solve climate change, and sam wanted to make everybody in the world more wealthy um but what ended up happening along the way, which is what you've probably seen over, you know one hundred and ninety nine epo des leo of doing this, is a mission drift right in silicon valley. The tech companies will often say they're trying to make the world a Better place HBO silicon valley. Very famously, the TV series made a mark a wonderful scene, making fun of that of techy tech startups.

Wanting to all pitching their startups is making the world a Better place. And IT is an incredibly successful selling point. And you can see sam doing this yet again in this blog post, just reinforcing this notion that, and if he uses the word prosperity this time, that I will bring this prosperity. But what I wanted to point out in the book is that what we've really seen is kind of greater control taken of this technology by the world's largest tech companies. Um and the main stories I really wanted to point out is that both sam and demis tried to protect their technology from the control of these companies is why sam started as a nonprofit.

And there was a lot in the book about how deep mind tried to break away from google and become an on profit because there were you know the founders were concerned about where A I would be steered when I was controlled by these large companies with a growth objective and and profit objective. Um so yeah I mean, to answer your question, good and bad stuff, of course, but there's always going to be a Price to pay. Every tech revolution has come with a Price, whether IT was um the internet, mobile, social media especially. And I think we're definitely going to see some kind of human Price come with with generate A I as well.

It's interesting because this is his right in the cusp of turning OpenAI into tube companies and nonprofit and a four profit, right? That was one of the reasons he got fired briefly because IT wasn't clear what was going on. In fact, mean a morality who took over as interm CEO when all man was on the outs for about three seconds, just left.

The company, along with many of the other top leadership, is what's going on there? Is that a lack of confidence in OpenAI mission? Is that, that they don't want to work for a four profit company. Do you have any excited in that?

I think it's it's probably a mixture of a few things. So what I heard from speaking to people who were on the OpenAI board was that mira um was not comfortable with sams leadership. Neither was illiac skiver who also left. He was the chief scientist.

This he's he's made his own startup.

which is worth raised a tone of money called super safe intelligence.

And the me.

your name and the joke .

is that maybe mirror should make another start of called super .

extra safe intelligence .

for .

because it's .

the incentive. Ation, of course, is that OpenAI e is not actually making safe A I or they don't trust sam to do IT. And as we know that when he was fired, the big, the quote that came came out from the board was that he was not consistently candid.

I E, he was not telling the truth. He was. He was lying. He was, or just being manipulated.

And there we never got the receipts on that. Like, well, about what they never they were very kg, and they still are about all this.

Yeah and they haven't they have been able to really give like clear examples.

And I think but I yes.

I think that's partly due to to na and things that they signed that that stop them from from doing. And then what interesting is that when mirror fall after that, mirror actually sent a note to the open eyes staff s saying kind of dismissing all of that and denying that SHE there was any kind of big rift with sam. But you know how true is that? It's actually very hard to to trust some of the the public statements from these people um but the fact that there are so many have left means in a way that sam can sort of run open eye now as his show so he can mult IT how he wants the reactive .

to him into meat which is that he is not really a scientist to a technologist. He is start up guys of money raising machine demise is a technologist, right?

He was formally a neuroscientist. He wrote a PHD on memory, a very well received PHD. He is a former game designer as well as a former chest champion. He is a brain. He is just like if you think of him as the brain and he tried to build artificial intelligence and model on the human brain, that's why he studied IT.

He's just been obsessed with a eye his whole life and and he's he's a very different kind of character, but also very charming and captivating, and has this kind of cut light devotion among his staff. Ed, in much the same way that sam often did for open eye. And demis was the first entrepreneur to try and start a, start a company, to try and build a.

He did that five years before sounded, and then when sam started open a eye with deep mind. And then when sm did dis IT turned into this really kind of bitter rivalry between the two. P IT seems .

to be a nuclear throp. C in this IT seems to be over safety, and it's interesting. The title of your books, supremacy is is kind of intriguing.

Is a super intelligence safe, I guess, is the thing people debate? And clearly, elliot skiver, demis, the anthropic folks all are worried that a super intelligence will be threatening to our existence and existence. Al threats to human kind. Sam does not seem to think that, or does he? Well.

he talks about IT and he has he's talked about IT to the senate and he's kind worried he's kind of such service to IT.

Yes, IT also feels like he he's a guy said seven million dollars and seven trillion dollars. I'm sorry with A D and we're gonna have intelligence and let's go full speed ahead IT but and a eye seems to kind of act like what we're just gonna st everything and worry about IT later and let's just let's go full speed to ahead and not worry so much about safety.

Yeah I think think yeah you know I think right now, sam, big thing is just it's like he's due trying to do so many things. I was in soft S O um a couple weeks ago and speaking to a veta capitalist who was gonna have dinner with sam and I said, if you could give him any advice, what would you be and he said, i'm going to advise that he needs to just pick one thing and stick with IT because you do too many things, are pick two things if you want to do the chip thing, do that the seven trillion dollar chip thing.

But just do that and then one other thing and that's IT and the other thing has to be a ChatGPT because I just doing two is he got um the point irish and that is sammer and it's also elon musk and it's also other you know jack dorsey ran two companies at same time. It's like these tech billionaires. You're not really a true tech leader unless you're like juggling three or four different companies that seems but in in sounds case, IT seems like he may have spread himself a little bit tooth in because because things are really looking at a control at OpenAI.

I want to include you in this because, of course, microsoft is a big partner with OpenAI and. Sort is probably the way most people will encounter IT with microsoft copilot, and they've actually changed the rules on recall. They're about to push IT out there, aren't they?

Yeah uh, next month, october, insiders will be getting IT. I think this is a great example how microsoft sometimes just makes really bone headed decisions. And recent to the initial rollout to recall where they didn't take security as seriously they probably should.

So now they've gone back to the drawing board, and it's the way you know, I I don't want to give them like a lot of credit here. It's like the way it's going to come out is the way that always should have come out, right? So the different .

now din thing and you can turn that off, you can uninstall IT now, right? Yes, the the whole and security experts were worried as because for those who don't remember, who don't recall, the idea was was going to do screen shots periodically, like every thirty seconds of what's going on, and then use AI to ingest IT understand IT, which was interesting, in fact, of variety ais, depending on what the screen shot was of. And then for you to be able to quality IT, microsoft said, but dor, it'll never leave your computer, only you will have access to IT. But security experts said, that's just too valuable, a treasure trove, everything you've done on the computer, uh, that bad guys will go after IT and IT really is going to be a problem.

Yeah, all the information was stored on encrypted and IT .

wasn't IT wasn't for IT wasn't a bit like IT IT was open.

Now anyone with top level access could typically go through another user files. So if there is also for the questions coming up, yeah, there is also such a question to come up about, like with parents and children who, like children, may be going, especially with the trans stuff, right? Know whether or not they're expLoring different ideas.

And can parents get access to that? And an IT can in danger people. Uh, so now it's gonna all encysted and A V B S on clave.

Uh, obvious ly still never leaves the device. You need to use windows. Hello, then a visual facial recognition to set IT up in the first place or picking print, uh, from there on.

Now you can use A A pen if you want. So it's going to have all the security up in place. I still think it's an excEllent tool.

I I think you know people who I get the concern over the privacy and stuff like princess right now, I will also automatically filter out credit, our information, uh I D license numbers, passport information like it'll block that stuff automatically. So even if someone did get access to IT, that stuff would be back. Um I get the safety concern over this.

And of course, there should be an open discussion and they should be as transparently possible. But the same time, it's like when people kind of forget about this, unlike what do you think A I is going to do like the whole point of making these tools is to make our lives easier to augment the human brain, basically. And this is just one specific use case of IT.

But in ordering A I to be successful, IT is all about at some level. Some are undergoing information about yourself. You can have a personal assistant that knows nothing about you.

It's like hiring a personal assistance in real life. You know, not telling them anything about what you're likes are like how they supposed to do their job. Now of course, a lot of people may not want that experience and that's totally fine.

Understandable to in which case, yeah, you don't need to opt in. If you did up, then you don't like that. You can delete all the info. You can uninstall entire program. So I think all these options are good um but I think this is you know what we want with a high at least some of us of the wise I don't know what we're talking about, talking about .

image generators Silvia OS gest huge amounts of images and artists don't like that AI is nothing unless IT injects all the content we can give IT ah whether it's our stuffers somebody else's that needs to you use a chat bother any .

of the AI tools I I taker like I don't use IT as a productivity tool in my daily workflow.

really. We were talking before the show about and jeff is jarvis demonstrate this on twice about nobo L M, which is google rag based AI bot, which which rag is retrieval augmented generation where you take documents you provided and then you can query about those documents. It's kind of what recall would also be.

And jeff demos, jeff took a bunch of his writings, put IT in there, and and IT generated a podcast with a male and female host who pause and and, you know, they sounded to kept like, totally like podcasts ers explaining, talking about what jeff's writing said. I said, jeffrey t is IT accurate. He said, yes, it's pretty accurate. It's actually would be one way you could understand what i'm writting about if you prefer that .

IT sounds like a cool party trick, but is that super useful if you're looking for one particular piece of information you don't want to have to listen to two people doing about.

well, we mah don't say that.

Don't if I think it's an interesting example though because I right now, what we're seeing a lot of is like I know Marks have had a few years ago where to was that would summarize your emails, but IT would name summize or just kind of redo your emails, which itself can be kind of boring. But if you can add a narration to IT tell us us a story kind of thing when you thought your headphones on and your commuting in the morning.

that's kind of point of that. You're trying apple proms, intel gent to do whatever comes out next year. Yeah I guess that something people would like. You use two words that i've always thought kind of described the eye, which is party trick than this IT often feels like, especially with A A chatbot. It's just a trick. It's just showing something that doesn't seem that useful um having you know scarlet johanson s voice by though I just got the new metal voices and one of them definitely sounds like some so I don't think metas made a deal with scargill, but they have made deals with a lot of famous voices like I think they're just enough duty .

bench and yeah juty dunch .

is on there yeah that's .

a big that's a .

big like that was an expensive kit. But you know I so this is into the event this week, the meta connect event, the mark zuker berg came on, talked about what they're doing. He calls lama.

They're a large language model. Open source. I I don't think that's actually an accurate way to describe IT, but IT is more open in the sense that you can use IT, right? You can can download IT.

In fact, you download models and run them locally. Do you talk about in the book? I don't think you talk much about meta and their AI efforts.

I do I think that, that requires that would probably require like a couple of chapter because the whole open source effort in A I is so interesting.

What is open source when IT comes to A I? I mean, what does that mean?

Well, IT IT means that you don't have to um you don't have its in the same way the open source software works for although as you said, like is IT actually open source, I think there's one of the main open source associations actually said lama is not strictly open source. And so the phrase of people .

reason is is apparently .

the most accurate way to describe as open weights but it's just a so I tell you what .

the weights are that they .

are using and it's a cheaper way for businesses to use generate A I rather than have to pay tony money for A P I access to um OpenAI GPT latest GPT model or geri from google um or even anthropos claude you don't have to you know it's just a much cheaper option and that you've got similar efforts come from france from mistral. Um there's a lot if you go to hugging face, um that's like A A real hub for all the different open source models that are currently available.

Yeah and i've played with there a number of tools you can download like allah and anything that AI that you can download models from hugging face or other sources and try them. And you know no model is perfect. All the models are good at some things and not good at other things.

It's funny because mira mali was one of the people who was on stage sitting there with ChatGPT four o SHE must have liked open eye at that time. No, that was only a couple of months ago. This stuff is moving so darm fast.

I'm looking forward to reading your book for me. And can you can you give us a preview because we haven't touched on we've touched on sort of the handwringing of the former board rep members that OpenAI saying we are not being super safe enough and you know what dangers we know where there, what gards legitimate companies are going to put IT on their products. But then there's the dark web and there's .

open sources when and there russia .

and I know there's going to be so much out there that is so evil and so good at say, here's an analogy um we're going to talk probably later on this show about do not pay and its founder .

oh yeah yeah that's right up your ally. He just got snacked right.

And some of these some of these early focus in the legal space like like josh, there's another guy named Andrew arruda, who's latest product is going to go through judicial opinions and try and profile judges, give lawyers intelligence about judges tendencies. And people are constantly trying to read the tea leaves as to their judges.

And A, I could help you do that if you put in everything you know about this person in every legal decision they've ever written your maid, you could probably gain some insights. If if you fed N. A, I with information that was strictly like mining techniques for underrated winners to be put into terrible illegal situations, you could probably really find two things to be very effective. You know, OK.

you just came up. So I ve always wonder what A I safety mean, by the way. Breaking news, this just happened as we begin the show. Gavin newsome has widowed the AI safety bill.

and that was gna happen yeah I mean.

even nani colossi was in or you can't say yes to this, but this was an A I safe. This was an attempt to make A I safer. Why was IT always going to happen for me?

Oh sorry, I just when um when I took grip of silicon valley and talked a lot of people in the industry there on the policy side and they said they hate they hate not only that but also they believe that it's politically damaging for musing. To if he signed IT for his potential chances if he ever one wants to run for president in the future. So because IT had pushed back from democrats as well from mother democrats. So um just there was this kind of acceptance that IT wasn't gonna happen. He did sign those other bills, right but just not this one that everybody .

said he's been busy. We have a whole host of bills including banning cellphones and california a schools. I'll get to all of that, he said when he vetoed the AI safety legislation. IT doesn't take into account whether an AI system is deployed in high risk environments, involves critical decision making, are the use of sensitive data. Remember, this was a bill that was tasking companies, creating ais with with proactively making sure that they were safe, he said.

Instead, the bill applyed stringent standards, even the most basic functions, so long as long as a large system deploys that I do not believe this is the best approach to protecting the public from real threats posed by the technology. But IT was IT was politics. Ultimately that the tank, this bill, my mask supported IT he was .

probably only .

person you like.

My point in concern, I think, is that we can impose on all the regulations that we want you know this bill or some other um but only the good guys are .

going .

to follow the regulations and the bad guys are gona do what they want.

So what does that mean? We shouldn't have any regulation at all in order to keep up with china and the dark web. And whoever else is, is doing this at the beginning permit.

We are talking about the fact that that there is there rents really any secrets and creating lm and transformers because all of these papers have been published openly and everybody kind of understands how IT works. So there's nothing to stop bad guys or a nation state from going full speed ahead with unsafe, whatever that is unsafe AI. Yes, they.

if they want to pay for the access, or if they want to find a way to use despite an ocean and and steal the secret, maybe these companies have become more secretive. Mine has stopped releasing research in the way that I did just a year ago over I.

which was supposed to be open.

The opposite.

quite the opposite. They close as soon as they started. They started making some headway. They said, no, we do not get. We're doing this. But china has been at this for decades, and they've been using A I for things like a social punishment. H so it's I mean, I presume that china has all of the capabilities we have and then some the chinese government.

I think they are they have very strong capabilities, but in different areas. So for example, with facial recognition and vision recognition is china's incredibly strong because there's demand for IT for this know the states of violence network is also you know large language models, not so much, but there's also a lot of there been a lot of government subsidies for companies out there.

And building A I in china has actually been a lot cheaper then IT has been in the us. And in the west, partly for that reason. And the cost of actually accessing this technology has been low.

Such a big topic because where so where there's also an attempt to keep them from having the chips. For instance, the invidia chips video effect had to make dumped down chips for the chinese market because the chips act prevents them from sharing their best technology with chinese government. It's very, very complicated.

We got to take a break, but appreciate. I'm so glad to have you on permit to talk about this. I think everybody should read the books supremacy because it'll give you a good grounding and what's going on.

We have lots more to talk about, not just I and just a little bit my army. Olson is right for a bloomberg er icebound was we are anonymous. Was that about the anonymous movement?

IT was IT was about the activist collective in the splinter group of hackers that rot havoc across the internet.

Do you think they're gonna have I would imagine the same activists would have something to say about A I I think it's only a matter time before people start to sabotage AI. I know some artists have have done that with their work. Theyve put the stuff in the, in the art that they supposedly confuses. AI.

yeah. Well, and some people are taking the advantage of IT, like I could totally imagine, people from anonymous finding ways to exploit. Is that what they do? They're are very opportunities people, yeah, well, they was certainly ten years ago.

And there are probably finding ways to use, generate AI you to social engineer people. Yeah, an artist, artist are exploiting ing IT too. I know if there's a damn in her is like an extremely well.

And wealthy artists in the U. K. Has been generating paintings using A I and selling them, and he made millions of dollars as a result. So you know there's a lot of artist out there who may have had their work ripped off by A I because it's been kind of just sucked into the training data. But then there are others, especially the well established ones, who have found ways to actually capitalized on IT.

Do you think if you were a smart artist, you would you would adopt IT and say, oh, this is the future that depends .

how you define smart because would you sell your soul to be to make a smart decision and use I don't know um that that gets a little bit philosophical about whether as an artist whether you would use AI to create your work, it's and where you draw the line between the control you have over what you're creating versus where you let the computer step in and create something with you or for you, right?

That's what's so interesting about this whole thing is there's no agreement. No one knows what's going on. It's very good mere mortals trying to understand any of this.

But i'm so glad we've got army olson help us out. Of course. Daniel rubino, edit and chief of windows central lots to talk about in just a bit.

In fact, I want to take more about coupon. And then this hello, my my personal tourney. No, she's not, but she's my internet attorney.

That's Better internet tourney. She's not responsible for all those stupid things I do. Let's put IT that way. She's just responsible for trying to talk me out of them and fAiling everyone. So want to get in the email from from the you know, you really shouldn't be doing that.

Would I would never we've never had an actual atterley client.

No, you have no privilege was when I started a map on instance, he told me all the horrible things that can happen to me. Every one of them. Did I pay attention?

No, I went full speed ahead, of course, because that's just me. Anyway, great to have all three of you are showed. They brought to you by look out couldn't be more timely really these these days, every company is in the business of managing data.

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We go talking about AI. We're talking about all sorts of things with what's the current state of the copilot key. I think Daniel microsoft is now said, you can you can change what IT does.

Yeah I mean, typically you could always IT you could always remember any key .

in windows that I guess you the third party software right now, it's in the setting .

yeah now to get me in settings, uh, which is fine. I I mean I I was IT took a move in terms, so just trying to get people to use IT more but you know I use copy quite frequently even I don't use as much yeah ah yeah yeah actually subscribe to pro because I find a useful actually word when I am writing um I do like how you can also use IT to change the tone sometimes what you're trying to write and get across.

So there are some valuable like aspects to IT looking forward to getting you know creating slides I think is gonna someone who has a done power point very long time, very much looking forward to A I being able to build slides based on input you know that direction I give IT um so I still find IT right useful. I don't know it's actually we're twenty dollars a month is pretty expensive. But the rumor is that some big news to come to come out with copilot soon.

Uh, you know you've been following copilot. They've been pretty quiet on the last few months. Actually, you haven't been a lot of announcements around IT. And so we're starting to hear rumblings that there is gonna a lot more coming out pretty soon.

On that front is IT check GPT four o the copilot uses are, do we know what model is using her?

Yeah uses four point. No, I think the proverb uses A A little bit more than advanced one with the pro. You do get the latest. And whatever the is priority, I will say, I mean, I was just at samsung event in york city on thursday where they announced .

the new haps.

Yeah the galaxy A S tab s, tab s hand h the new keyboard has A A I no, no. yeah. For galaxy A I you know we know ms like pushing galatia I pretty hard and they just do the same thing to create their own key.

Ford, so apparently they you like the idea, yeah, I mean, I could see everybody kind of doing this right because the idea of an A I agent on your system. I think is gonna one of the most critical things uh, in our technology theories is going to do that too on for apple. So ah I see this as a tina continue.

Steve british. Uh, I guess I was at the night to cup last year, really kind of city's ed. I thought in a very nice way, the different roles A I would play over time in your computer from like a sidebar, which is kind of work copilot, to something much more integrated into your daily Operation. And microsoft moving full speed ahead with that is at the case.

definitely. I know some stuff that's coming. You can tell us it's okay.

Nobody is not just you and may .

be I think this stuff goes is pretty obvious for IT goes. I mean, where apples taking with theory, you know uh this idea of, you know, they tried IT a couple years ago. I was corta cortona.

the famous. I was cool.

Yes, yeah. IT was a cool idea. IT was often faster, Better than what theory was at the time. But at the of the day, these are so system.

Comparing IT, the series is not exactly that the higher far, but I never .

this was truly A I right. There was no like the actual eight, there was prerecorded things. And IT wasn't very smart. Now we're going to dislike fuzz logic. You could just kind of tell IT roughly what you want, and i'll figure IT out even in the most rough contact. Oh.

I feel like campus is listening. He said tvs presentation was at build twenty twenty three. That's right.

He was a great guy. I've quite a few times mart very smart, very down to her to just ah he's doing some really interesting things of that microsoft.

He's been able in a way I guess he's he's like a fellow. He applied sciences above like any other rule, but he has in a way that I think others have not been able to kind of explain what the role of A I is in how people work and what microsoft's sion is for incorporating ring that in. And that to me, is a much Better response to A I safety than a butcher handwaving saying, oh, we're going, we're going to make sure it's safe. Talk about the role it's going to play, how it's going to have integrate in what dat is going to use and what user controls there will be that much more concrete to me. And yes.

must always yeah there's always been trying to get ahead of this stuff for the simple reason is that they don't want government to come in. It's not that there against regulation. They just want dumb regulation on this and they don't want to get to do.

They don't want a bunch of comply is doing a bunch of stuff, heavy, massive blow back, government, step in and doing, you know, I like what this bill was going in california, right? Maybe an a limited technology. So mark tries to get ahead of the stuff by being kind of open about what they are doing, transparency, putting everything they want on the websites.

So you go read what they're doing in a way to curb the， you know from government from doing this。 I think ultimately, they do support legislation, but they just want IT smartly done. And that's a tough thing with the technology. Even all of us have a tough time struggling trying to understand that you mentioned about you know A I safety.

Like what does that even mean, right? It's a very weird question because right now time about large language bottle mostly, which are they're cool, they can do neat things, their foundational for a lot of other aspects that may come for from a for A I and you have like image generators and video generators. But like there's no this idea of like you know agi is like grape by as fearful of I personally don't think we're anywhere near A G I. I think we're so because I don't think we will even define the problems and we know what .

to solve their general intelligence. That's what supremacy is, right for me is a general like smarter than humans.

yeah. Quest is about the quest to build agi. yeah. yeah. Which is this very abstract. But do you know and it's interesting when tech companies talk about or what in the likes of sam or or dame or others talk about how many years IT will take to get there. It's almost like a carrot being dangled .

in front of us. Like said what said in some number of thousands of days, yeah, thousands of days.

IT kind of reminded me of when someone puts ninety nine cents on on a product instead of one dollar, just to make IT sound like a sooner than IT actually is.

If you want to do the math, a thousand days is about three years, so he could be talking a decade out. But IT sounds sounds closer, if you say thousands of days. And of course, rakers while has been saying it's just a couple of years out for decades.

decades, and it's always getting closer and .

closer every minute. Singularity ties.

I do think it's interesting the idea where we are with large of english models because like you can feed IT so much information and we have so much computing power these days, there really is a lot they can do like, you know, the idea of like IT figuring out potential curious for diseases is super fascinating, right? Because they could just do so much data modeling that humans couldn't 就。 But I think, you know, this question of A G I does become a little bit more interesting when you start to bring in K A. I, as we know what today, with these art, language models and advanced stems, kind of figure its own self out on how to create I, right? It's going to lead us down that path for us, I think, is an interesting thing because it's gonna all the world's knowledge and being able to model that, right?

So I saw just the other day somebody who works in a medical lab saying A I is not going to cure disease, but what I might do and help us cure disease is tell us what, Alice, to investigate what's experiments to do um and over and over again that kind of what I see people say is that A I is useful hand in hand with a human like there's things we bring to the table that A I cannot but an A I can be useful for a writer to inspire, for a researcher to kind of the opposites, a bunch of stuff.

But IT, ultimately the human brain does something qualitatively differently to the material. So it's a good hand and anything. When I think of A I safety, I worry more about A I and weapons and companies like android and and palencia companies.

We're seeing IT right now in the ukraine, russia AR. It's a test tube for A I and autonomous weapon and IT worries a hello, amy, that's a lot more scary. Then a super intelligence. Then you, the forbid project well.

something that deep, sorry ahead. sorry.

Yeah, go head for me.

I was just gna quickly say .

the deep mind that was one of their big red lines was not using their AI to be used for for military purposes, because I knew that google had this project mavy contract with the military with the pentagon a number of years ago um but IT was one of the reasons why they wanted to break away from google and become um independent kind of suda non profit organization was to protect when they eventually made agi. They didn't want google to have control of IT, but they failed. And google ended up taking control of deep mind more closely.

Yeah.

sorry.

that's all right. What I was going to ask is, and I see this in sam altman latest called .

I like this yeah.

And elsewhere just in the discourse, leo, you were just saying how you know, right now we're sort of working hand in hand and the humans have something to bring to the table. But of course, nobody talks about the next step anymore, which is artificial super intelligence. And you know.

do you think you're going to get there?

I mean, i'm not the person asked that question of I don't .

know anybody who knows Better. This is the problem. You can ask twelve different AI scientists, and you're going to get twelve different answers because nobody really knows if we can make that final leap into intelligence. There are people who believe, and I don't know what I think, but there are people who believe, like Steve gives them security.

Now that humans are just mechanisms, that we're just deterministic mechanisms, we're just like a computer that's really, really good and that there's nothing to to distinguish what a AI is doing from what a human is doing. And eventually A, I would get fast enough, big enough, whatever, to duplicate what we do. So there's nothing special about what we do.

And then there are people and workers. Well, by the way, one of those people believe that then there are people who think, now there's something different that the human does, that a vinoy's device cannot duplicate. There is some magical quality that humans have, that machines can have. So far, those people are right, right? I mean, the art, the writing, the stuff I generates is is mediocre in the extreme IT is not .

I but I think that's just a matter of time.

I think so you on that first cap, think of going to .

catch up yeah and I think um what's so part the problem with you? I is a simple fact that we don't even know what consciousness is. We haven't defined IT. Uh, we don't know how to study IT. Uh, we don't even know what IT is necessarily.

We know, okay, IT comes from the human brain, but we don't know, you know it's exact description in how IT in bites here, like how would actually happens, right? So there's all sorts of weird there is there about that. So when IT comes to like this super intelligence, the thing is it's like deterrent, a fact, right? Where if I give you uh A A computer and IT simulate to human being, you may think IT and act like human being and therefore IT is is IT .

really that's why the touring test is a crap test because you can do that.

Yeah because tricking people is super city. So if you have, yes, if you have like A I and it's like, oh IT seems like a house consciousness like we don't know even how to test for consciousness for like I do to find IT. So IT comes a really strange question. But i'm in that camp of know i've been reading the policies book determined .

and what he argues yes.

and i'm just in that camp sorry, we are just kind of machines and cogs. Would you have a lot more going on in our brain? But at the same time, it's ultimately just wear the sum of our experiences .

yeah and I think that's how sam out than an endemic office also view humans is that we can our brains can effectively be replicated by machines. Machines are extensions of our brains and they are being muddled on our brains. That's how we're kind of building them based on the brain as an inspiration. But like leo, when you were saying earlier in the future that we'll always need to have a human, you working with the machine and have have some element of the human. And I also question that like in ten.

fifteen, will we need and put .

and I I don't know that necessarily means that computers will be consciously cesspool ily, but we'll just out. So we're going to a outsource so much more cognitive labor to these things over the next ten, twenty years just because we can because it's easier because we're going to save money from doing that. Companies are going to make a on the money from doing that. So why not so they will and then our definition of consciousness, maybe we will change that kind of semantics in a way. Um but I think that's where these things will become powerful and that's just going that I see that as inevitable over the next decade or so.

Just two things to I S I is why always find where about you on mosk? Where is at the same time talk about A I all time started his own company, of course talks about, you know the fear of IT. Uh, then he's also going off about human population decline all the time. We are going to make time of babies.

But all the arguments for this kind of a is exactly what you're talking about, which is we're not use IT to offload a lot of jobs actually in the country, the economies with declining population to have benefited the most from this and still be able to follow a lot that work two computers to A I two robots, the very thing he's building. But some reason he thinks that I don't know, he has not made that connection yet. Wherever else kind of has you think I would say is, uh, there's a great movie from nineteen and seventy. It's a very not mean .

people ever seen IT as a british one called the colosseum.

Yeah, that moves fantastic .

writing this down.

Yeah oh yeah. Because like what's funny about that when we talk about A I, it's like the movie starts off. They're like turn on the computer. They're like there IT is connected to every single infrastructure in the united states, including our weapons. That seems .

a bad idea, right?

yeah. So like on the .

surface of IT.

if you do create a supercomputer in A G I, maybe the first thing you shouldn't do is connect IT to your entire .

infrastructure.

Yeah, yeah. great.

Let's see.

That's the thing that scary that that's where i'm more worried about A I safety. That's what's happening in ukraine right now.

right? right?

So they just to attached a robot dog to a drone so they can fly IT into russia and drop IT in russia. I can't imagine anything more terrifying.

But I think those kinds of I mean, if if you want to to go down this route, like I think that's one element of A I safety. But then there is also a more settled, nuanced consequence at swisher and harder to to foreseen, which is kind of like the the consequence as we got from social media for incidents like who would have guessed with social media would came to us to connect the world. That was mark sacroc g big mo.

Um that that would also have the side effects where um there will be missed information. Um a lot of teams would find their their mental health hamper, especially Young girls on instagram. Polarization, political polarization, filter bubbles, all those things.

Um but it's also useful. It's not like we're going to shut social media down its utility. It's practically our social is an infrastructure for us. So it's very difficult to regulate, but IT does also have these kind of real world human consequences.

And that's that's also an element of AI safety that i'm concerned about that we will have similar kinds of erosion of various things that are not that we value as humans, whether it's our relationships or um are you critical thinking skills are our creativity, our value of the value of human creativity. I think those kinds of values will start to get eroded as we rely more and more on generate AI models and all the amazing things they can do over the next decade. Again, I don't see this happening in the next year or two, but really over the next decade or so.

i'm one hundred percent on board with that. And and i'm going to make a ground breaking prediction right here. The jenee is gonna, the one that sells its soul. Because because so many things become so convenient yeah we don't know want anyway. But so many things, you know, that bogus are going to get taken off our plate if if, for example, copilot can stop my dad from calling me every time he can't find the right draft of the document that is looking for on his computer. And so you've got IT coming down from that side because our parents, you're Young enough to use computers, but not old enough to really get them not, not Young enough to really .

get them combination right.

exactly. And then then on the other side, there are kids who you know are constantly in need of help and support. And if theyd would just do the homework, literally the homework or the researcher or whatever themselves, they could figure this out. But no, they always come to my dad. So so here's .

a question for you all. Let's say we knew ten, twenty years ago that social media was going to cause these problems. What what would we have done differently? What's the what's the model for which we should do now with A I that we could have done twenty years ago with the event of the internet, social networks?

Well.

we know these kind.

But would we've done that? No algorithms.

Let's not use algorithms. No, no. sorry.

What did by that? Do you really like more transparency for like third party, third party auditing by whether it's like an auditing firm or um regulatory agency that's really like if in an ideal world that really had the expertise to look at algorithms, say, okay, look, you guys have started optimizing for engagement what effect is that onna have now that your news feed is going to start putting all the outraged posts outrage using post at the top of the feed? And so I think I agree, transparency would be .

we could, by the way, we could have known that because we ve seen that happen with for ince's broadcast television, which went from something that was going to transform society to a vast wasteland, simply by pandering to what people wanted, their own kind of slow algorithm, so that we get fast algorithm, social media, and got the same thing happened much more quickly. But I do we know if we have the will to intervene, if we would have have the will then, or if we have the will now, intervene these things, or whether we would even intelligently true.

I mean, but like you know, we did have the idea of like of the idea moderation, right? And that if you a property, if you own a website.

if you yeah you know you know .

you are entitled to moderate that network and according to weight but now there's blow back against that where people are conflicting IT with, you know, free speech. Somebody in our .

discord and of burberry is says we now know that section two thirties reach was too broad. I would disagree with that.

But yeah, I mean that I want those people like if you if you own a website or if and twitter is a website, uh if you own that and you set up the rules and people agree to your terms of service, you are letting them in to, as you are, property, you can do whatever you want in terms of regulation and moderation. So I don't understand how people are conflicting.

This idea that lake, well, when the social network to a certain size arbitrarily, we warned him to find that IT now becomes a public commodity. Where is now under different rules, rules. And we don't need to moderate IT and do all these different things. I don't know.

It's a great anti capitalist message. Trust to decide what's okay, what not okay. And that doesn't IT listening in the states that changes every four years. So I don't in the UK changes even faster doesn't at by me. So I I don't really know who you're gona trust, who's going to where you .

get private networks, right? But like, so if you know the idea is that could be a facebook IT moderate a certain way. It's supposed to delivered experience that people enjoying go to for that experience, right? If they don't enjoy that experience, a competing website will come out in offer you .

the free market free market yeah because .

you have extremes are yeah like four chain, which like we're not going to really moderate and didn't of course, they did do some moderation, right you know? And but then you have other companies who then host them and like what we're going to express our own moderation and we're not going to host you, right? And this is technical how this is all supposed to work, but for some reason, or I got sensitive feelings all of the sudden.

And it's like, well, that private company can actually tell its users what I can can do is like sent when I don't know this because its virtual. If you walk IT to someone store and they start behaving erratically, you're like, could you please leave who if someone going to come and where I going to know, you can't tell them to leave. It's a public .

space like this is an age old conversation between the invisible hand of the free market versus every other thing we've thought of planned economies and we've never come up with a good solution. But the fame market and capitalism seems the best of the worst. And I I don't resolve this right.

And then you can throw in government's role, which you know you've never been able to your point about section to thirty o to do illegal things on facebook, right? Because section thirty dozen people that right. But then IT becomes a question of enforcement and the government has to step in and say, hey, look at all those terrorists. Let's let's have you do something about them.

And we know, I mean, facebook was very instrumented genocide and man arming. We've seen these platforms be used despite every law against IT in horrible ways. So I know, I don't know what the answer is.

I just and I think that's what a lot of governments are fearful up right now. The social engineering, they're losing the no one knows what to do IT reminds me of early copy people who are in a hindside eec .

always screwed up the over region.

but no one knew what was going on. We to write down all our product because we don't know. Maybe .

right.

yes, but that's the same thing with how we're over. We may be overreacting on social networks and regulation and government steps in tells facebook know you to take that down yeah and may be wrong. But because governments are are worry about losing control and it's a it's a real concern. I don't know what the solution is and we're going to get some things wrong, but there is going have to be this kind of given poll, you know like given take what IT comes, the stuff.

We're going to take a little break, come back with more. This is a fascine conversation, and we've had IT before. I don't know if we've ever come to a solution on IT, but is a very interesting world we are living in.

Isn't that party? y. Elson is here. He is the author of a new book called supremacy AI ChatGPT and the race that will change the world.

Wow, just came out stable right now from saint Martins press. Is that right? Let me look.

yes. Same marta's press. Thank you for being here party. I appreciate and thank easily for letting a Better from Daniel.

Rubino is also here editor in chief of windows central. Great to have you. I like having smart people on because this is as such a chAllenging conversation, as such a chAllenging world.

We're growing up and we're living in. Our kids are growing up in that IT feels like we should be able to come to a solution. And yet it's so difficult, so chAllenging.

And in this soul, who is a parent like me, who is looking at our kids and saying, what do we do? what? What a world, what a world has, has your son doing? He's great.

He was actually home from college this weekend. So is he like IT? Yeah very a well know everybody like some aspect of college and is chAllenged by others. And he is having very much that experience bit he goes school in sand ago, so I can't be all bad.

No, no.

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This is more than password management. This is really, really a good idea. One password extended access management helps you secure every sign in for every APP on every device.

IT solves problem, traditional im mtm just can't touch. The best way to think of this is as your company's security is as like the quad of of a college campus somewhere. Maybe that your son might be to this with a beautiful Green lawn, brick buildings I ve covered, and of course, nice brick path leading from building to building.

Those would be the company owned devices, the IT approved apps, the manage employee and these. Everything's perfect there, right? And then there are the pads people actually use.

The shortcuts warn through the grass. The actual straight is line from building A, A building b, the real world. Those are the unmanaged devices, the shadow IT apps and non employee identities like contractors in your network.

Most security tools just assume, oh, you ve got a happy break pads. Everything is going to be fine. We're going to work there. But really, where do the security problems take place? They take place on the shortcuts on the pads that users are wearing, but you know themselves into into the Greenslade one password.

Extended access management is the first security solution that takes all those unmanaged devices, all those apps and puts them into your control, all those identities. IT ensures that every user credential is strong and protected. Every device is known and healthy in every APP is visible security for the way we work today.

IT is now generally available to companies with octaves and microsoft enter, and they're in beta for google workspace customers. So you're using october ethics and takes the next step, make sure those devices are also ethnicity is a really a great idea. Check IT out one password dot com slash twit again for occa and interests and in beta now for google workspace, it's the number one P A S S W R D docs slash to IT.

What a great idea this is. One, past or dog comes flash twitter. We thank them for their support of this.

We can tech in your support. Two, when you go to that address, make sure you do one password, duck com slash twit. We are talking about image generation artists using that. Of course, there has been a lot of artists, filmmakers, upset with stable to fusion and its ability to create not just steals. Now video, the company behind stable effusion stability AI has just a named James Cameron to their board of directors. That that is why the great filmmaker who's always been, I have to say, in the cutting edge of technology, director of avatar, AR of the avatar movies and the terminated movies in titanic. This is obviously good pr for a stability A I right um and IT means I think that hollywood is kind of kind of embrace the idea I can imagine this is the case for of of AI generated short clips and films coverage transition things you've forgot to shoot the AI we've seen IT can do a pretty amazing job.

I went on a rabid hole on youtube where people are taking clips from movies and then using A I to rewrite or the scene where you you're watch the scene, it's like really playing at some point A I steps in and completely changes .

the outcome of what's how do I search for that? That sounds wild.

I have I, I think like A I.

I changing .

auto complete for a movie scenes yeah .

yeah kind of you got me thinking just about how like people remix music today. You know what this is on a small scale. These are great when people's duo um like movies and stuff like that, but like in thousand nine hundred and fifty and vision those are amazing um but like I can vision you know this stuff like people doing fan edits of movies.

right this is this is the terminator redone in seventy millimeter pan vision like that. This is done by an .

A I right IT looks so wow.

it's only onna get Better too.

Yeah I mean, well.

and this raises .

an interesting topic because i've already seen pictures of joe by in a wheelchair in in mcDonald yeah you know i've seen some really interesting deep fakes. I don't think they're good enough to fool anybody yet, but but they are means they are mean generators and as we know, means can can Carry a lot of psychological import and can really change your mind about things.

I think with this news, this is really also a reflection of stability ais ability to get a really .

big name on me and .

so I after I saw this news headline I so I interviewed the um founder of stability AI back in August twenty two. His name is emad. Most stock. He's he's not CEO anymore. He had to step down a few months ago um because investors were not happy with the way he was running things.

But I remember in that I look through the transcript our and because I remember him mentioning James Cameron when we met and he and I looked and he did he had said where we want to try and make an AI generated movie. We're suspended x million dollars on this and we're talking to James Cameron to be the director um so this was he was already planning this back in August twenty twenty two um and for them we've got him on the board. I think it's it's a huge he's so influential in filmmaking, right? He is like an icon for filmmakers and just as he said in his statement, like he has used, whether it's an avatar or in terminator, he is absolutely embraced technology for cgi to is part of his filmmaking. So it's probably gonna just I know if it's going to alleviate any of the fears about AI in creative industries and and film making, but I think it's gonna help create this, maybe the sense of acceptance of using IT.

Meanwhile, of course, sag after a is calling a strike against league of legends because they're using A I voices instead of real players voices to get around the video game strike and also non union performers. So there is definitely a push pull going on in hollywood over over the it's very interesting. Speaking of a did did anybody buy the rabbit r one? Now rabbit is now saying only they sold one hundred thousand.

I think I don't know how many were returned. Only five thousand people use IT daily. Bi, do. And I like this because I came from teenage, where I was designed by teenage engineering, so IT really look cool. But then we found out at, well, I was just an AI APP running on a android, running on a cool looking unit. Um, no.

okay, I was.

you know what I was? I pushed the bay button and then IT didn't take my credit card. I thought, H, I ran away from that because I buy, yeah, I buy all stuff.

They have pushed out sixteen software updates. They sold one hundred thousand. This, this is like that. What was that projection pen that you pin, pin, humane pin. And so these heart, and i'm waiting, I did order .

IT works as a phone.

right? no. Well, so in this anything, h just does the one thing.

Well, the in the article in the rundown there is the text. The r one had become somewhat useless to many, leading some to turn this into a more capable android phone. Yeah.

yeah, you could. And I think that I came with seller connectivity because that's how IT went out. And I did think so.

The theory was, so I can call an uber for you. You don't need a phone because you just have the AI and the r one. Get you get you an uber.

I mean, honestly, I think in some time, ten years, maybe these will become in place. I ordered the the pin that supose to record everything that happens in my life, and then tell me what happened. I ordered this is friend.

the friend dot com.

No, what was IT called IT was, you know, it's never come, was supposed to come back in August. Limitless, I think IT was yeah limitless that AI they made a pin that you clip on and then IT would, it's magic. IT would record everything. And if I didn't know the voice IT IT would you could ask, hey, you might if I record this for later for notes and if the person said yes, IT would then add that voice to your list of approved voices. Anyway, I ordered IT don't have IT someday.

I'm so intrigued. Those devices the other one is is friend 点 com， which is like independent and it's does similar things that got always on microphone and record your conversations so you can ask IT through your phone. What about that chat I had with tom? Did he did he come off as capacitive aggressive? yeah. And you can can make judgments ments about your conversations or you daily just .

had not imaginary.

Just in case you weren't sure about that.

there might be ninety nine dollars and IT will come someday. I'm also waiting for my my glasses with the AR glasses that earned from brilliant labs. There's a lot of stuff out there and i'm a sucker. Now what I do have and mark eckbert talked about IT this week on at the connect event, is the media glasses where you're getting smarter and smarter .

yeah people really like those.

you know, IT because they attempt so little yeah, there is an AI and you could say, what am I looking at and that kind of gives you, I asked you, what am I looking at? They said, but there's a lot of screens and wires. You IT didn't really IT didn't only see if I can what am I looking at? I can't member what i'm i'm supposed to do this. Hey, meta, what am I looking at? It's thinking, well.

it's thinking you're .

looking yet out with IT use for live streaming .

or video production possibly .

use for live streaming and video production present IT had actually understood what I was seeing, which is, yeah, you got pretty wild. You can take videos with IT and pictures and and mark is we're going to have a new version of these, which I think they are selling quite well because they look like this, look like glasses, right?

Well and and that that's .

a problem and that's a problem. That friend, not imaginary, has to at least thirteen states have two party consent laws. You can't just go around recording people.

Well, that's that's what that limits is super to get around was you have to ask permission and what would record IT IT and if IT doesn't recognize the voice. But if you ask permission and then you and you said, yes, okay, then I would add IT and I would start recording you as well. This is a little light that comes on when I when I record. So you know, I may start it's what's not red.

but really they didn't get red. They make IT White yeah it's not the most top. It's not like doesn't strike the same trigger ing feeling of like seeing a red light on a camera suddenly you're on it's a White light.

But it's interesting that I am really impressed by the success of these classes. The the ray bands that, that met has had out. And I think a part of IT is just that they don't look like tech glasses.

They look like Normal glasses. They don't make you look really nerdy and awful like the google glasses and other like snap augmented a reality glass also look really silly. And I think a lot of these company just underestimate how important people care, how much people care .

about what they look like.

what they disappear.

So apple has I think i've said this along, but I think apples kind of missed the boat with vision pro thirty five hundred box. And I know the game, but he wants to strap a heavy computer on their face. I think that's really a lot of IT meet is still gonna ll their medical quest.

But one of the things they talked about is hr. Yan, which is not available yet. But but in fact, mark, the guy came out with a brief case that was hand up to his wrist.

He said, this is the only one of these, but they did show IT to some people. They are working on IT. They look like these only they're a little thicker.

I think you know, this is, this is something there they are there's the array glasses, and these are augmented reality. These have an interesting technology to kind of shoot video into your pupils as opposed to reflect off the glass. I think that they're on the right track, but who knows how much will cost, whether you they'll be like or whatever.

This is their first time they've talked about this. I'm very interested that meet a basically, by the way, made to connect the developers conference. Mark didn't even say the word facebook once he mentioned instagram, but I think really the zaha berg is decided we're going to take all the money we make off facebook and write IT down into the sunset, because the only people use IT now are older people. And then go into this VR metaverse thing, I mean, kind of has right.

because this is the problem with all these social networks is at some point remark, right? You just can't grow anymore. So as a company, what do you do that you can just be, well, we're kind of find this quarter too, if you go to the road or you .

can sell IT to you on mosque of your kg. Yes, maybe the hard .

part is that they don't have a platform associated with this technology, right.

because at least they .

have horizons. But no one. I mean, I have a quest three, and i've been in horizon events in the horizon rooms and there's no one there.

Yeah, there's no one. There is slight tumble. Ds.

so that was even the story a couple months ago that even met his own employees, never used a yeah.

why I should say there's nothing to do. That's really there's there's a hard core group of like I think small. There's always like a community of people who will keep going because they really get something out of IT, but it's nowhere near getting mainstreamed success. If anything, I think user numbers have really declined significantly.

Is that you think the case with vision pro as well with apples? I don't .

totally with you, leo, on what you are saying and is almost like they are trying to do too much in one go and people just start ready for IT, but they don't do that. I don't think apple has like a social platform for people to meet and mingle and virtual reality matters.

I think .

the real is.

is not VR. The future is a and the idea that you could have these glasses on look completely Normal, well, nerdy, but Normal, and be getting information through them. They showed a cy multi ese translation, which is nerdy because you say something, and then the person has to wait in the translation, gives me the translation, then he responds.

So there's this kind of leg in the conversation, but that is, you know you're having a real time conversation with somebody in the language you don't speak. That's pretty cool. I think.

I think what best part is it's going be used for ads at some point. Oh god, can be back around IT be just add popping up as you in your real world. That would be .

my new report.

Yeah of course IT will because, you know, of course IT will. That's IT IT was .

like you were saying, Daniel, in the very beginning when we were talking about rk microphone recall like how do you people expect to use a like it's just gonna interesting information and people are just is going to become Normalized and people are going to get used to IT. I think it's a similar situation with these glasses. You know, the more of the tech disappears and IT doesn't look like tech anymore and people don't realize or care as much that they're being filmed, are being recorded, then um you know this is going to be a whole boatload of new data information for for meta to just and use for ad targeting.

Yeah look at the watch.

the watch that the apple watch was so novel when I first came out. Not very many people had them. Now so many people have there. We don't even think twice about IT. And to that point, apple at one point partnered with a mess to do an incredibly expensive watch band. I could see them proa makes I wear I could see them partnering up with somebody very high end and maybe trying to take the the nerd edge of the product yeah we don't know that .

apple is not doing the same thing. Meta is and working on A H glasses at the same .

time as they a version to bring from the Price. And like we have as many features, but I think seems obvious. I still think it's you know, we've talked about on last, they're starting from the wrong and they went from let's put everything we can imagine in this crazy technology and then with let down as we figure out what people don't want versus starting off very simple, which is kind of what facebook and metal is doing here with these glasses and then adding features as people want more things I always do. They are here, to your point.

how did with the iphone, right? They didn't have a ton of apps on there was just a few apps start small and then grow from there. So it's weird that they did IT in that opposite direction.

Your colleague get bloomberg, who is probably the most connected to apple rumor guy mark german wrote in this sunday newsletter today, met his new headsets show apple has lost its way with the vision pro ah he he believes that apple, while they're working on other stuff, they just haven't really found a market for the vision pro. He says he wants to turn the product into united devices with different features and Price points.

But it's not starting from a rocks solid foundation to say to say the least. The headset is more of a technology showcase in a general genuine consumer product. There's little reason for someone to buy a vision pro instead of a computer yeah I mean.

suppose if you we're going to be generous, you could say, yes, this is a technology showcase. So now they're gonna dle things down and start with something a little bit more basic. But I don't know. This sounds like a strange strategy. apple.

They got to cut out a lot to get down to like where the baby and meters are at this point. Like, I mean, everything I love you, what would make them really fast stating is what those cameras, of course, is facial recognition when you're talking to so on, IT immediately watched them up and brings up there, I love their name. Yes, yeah.

It's like his name is Daniel rubino. You used to work .

with him in twenty years.

I'm going to need that. I'm just tell me you there you what .

school they went to .

and I yeah my kids that's what I said .

when I said, jane is onna sell them so they .

need that yeah it's another .

example of that. They're going to be another look like look .

at this picture of mark zuker berg from the girl man's column. I don't care. I even looked like that. I don't care.

Oh IT, it's like when you clear came out for the airport yeah the a like I I don't care. Take all my figure prints. Bottle includes you go to security quicker.

I don't care. Would you do sam orb? Would you look into that? He's doing irish scans. You can't change your irish.

He's doing irish scans and giving people a handful of world coin all over the world, in fact has been kicked out of a number of countries because it's a little ski zy. Um but would you give him your iris? You gave the federal government .

I you gave IT to clear and that's a private company. I gave IT to the tsa for um what do we call a preset?

It's worth IT.

right? But to my point there being I guess, more sanguine about giving IT to the U. S. Government that were a state government than I am to a private company .

witness twenty three and me, yes, I gave I don't know what's going .

to happen with IT, but also that that's clear is like that one one to one facial recognition, right? That's that's and when you use facial recovery tion to unlock your phone, that's one to one. But using IT in glasses for a more kind of one to many approach where you're looking at a crowd of people or a random face comes up to you and then somehow that gets identified, that's a little bit more creepy. And I think in a problematic area, when IT comes to privacy is especially. That, that were in surveilLance .

and said he had that capability years ago and declined to do IT because of stocking and other issues .

that would use.

Yeah and in fact, I I used to have hello doorbell and IT was supposed to recognize people when they came up to the door and I didn't. And I think that that's why they just didn't want to risk that there.

Is that a company though that that was doing this or is doing this right, but describing the web for all these?

Em, yeah.

yeah. That's and .

very kind of suspect on the on the other hand, by the way, you go to clear view A I look at the headline how clear view A I helped shape the war in ukraine. Ine create on the other hand, you know of Taylor swift uses A I as he does at her concerts to keep stalkers out. I support that. I think that's fine. So as with all this stuff, it's really hard to find a bright moral line ah yes or no on well.

anything that helps you keep the lawyers out of medicines are garden.

You remember that? Yes, yes.

that's A O I was a was a crazy story.

Mg is owned by the dolans, and he is kind of famously litigious and he used the AI and both IT was not just master square garden, but also, I think, IT radio, city musical and very seriously, last Christmas tourney and her family try to see the rockets Christmas show. They let the family but this you cannot go in because you work for a law firm that we are in litigation with.

And I don't know, did SHE suit? Did he have any grounds for suit? I don't know. He said he was very humiliating. And I guess that .

would be yeah, I think there was simplification over that. I don't know what exactly what happened. I would would go in the background .

and doland the dolen. And he also owns the sphere in losses. gas.

You know， I just feel like we shouldn't have billionaire. We should just legislate out of existence. Forget all the other stuff. Let's just legislate billionaire out of existence.

Let's take a little break because I want to be a billionaire and I am gonna everything I can with ad after ad after add to make as much money as possible. No, that's not me. I'm sorry to say that's why am in biotic. I never quite work that part apt.

Our show today though, i'll tell you early on in the show, you remember we had salt hanka and I didn't ask him this, but I know for a fact that his whole business is powered by shop fy this episode this week and check has brought to you by shop if I so many businesses, big and little, in the in brick mortar, are online use shop of five. He think about businesses who sales are rocking all birds, for instance, and where my old birds right now, or untucked many unlocked shirts. You think about an innovative product, a progressive brand and button down marketing.

But IT often overlooks secret, is actually the businesses behind the business, making selling in for shoppers, buying simple for millions of businesses. That business is shop fy. That's IT.

I love shop fy. They've made IT possible for my son to literally create his own business. All of his sales are done by shop fy.

Nobody does sales Better than shop fy home of the number one check out on the planet. And then not so secret secret was shopping conversions are boosted up to fifty five o percent. Far fewer cards going abandoned, way more sales being made yeah. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform Better be ready to sell whatever your customers are strolling or strolling because shoop fy is everywhere your customers are. And that's the beauty of shop fy on the web, in your store, in their feet and everywhere in between businesses that sell more, sell on shop fire, upgrade your business and get the same.

Check out that salt hank uses and all birds and on tucket sign up for your one dollar a month trial period shop fied dog comm slashed to IT that's all lower case shoppy sho P I F Y 点 com slash twit upgrade you're selling today sharp fy 点 com flashed there year ago。 I played that sound effect one time too many. Last week, they had ended IT out. They don't want too many of those. So i'll use this when the commercial soa and then we all know.

can we scream that out with .

A I yeah the commercial is .

just the sound sound of.

I think benito used a razor blade and tape, but I think you've gotten done.

So update on the lawyer and mass where garden SHE did so there. There was an injunction in place, the trial court said. Now they really shouldn't be able to do that at least while the trial is pending.

So there was an injunction put in place. Then there was saying, no, you can't scream out you're opposing lawyers anymore. Uh, then there was an appeal and the appeals courts set .

IT aside and said, yes indeed, rate the Price you think you right?

The lawyer is good at making his case um for the quote, quote mother separating a mother from her daughter .

and girl scout.

girl scouts SHE was watching over.

I get a troop with her.

That's right, exactly.

I do remember the new york city try to prevent him from doing in a medicine school garden by threatening his liquor license ah saying, okay, you can block people but we're not going to let you sell liquor at medicine square garden right and dolen said, fine, no liquor you you tell all those bruins fans there's no liquor for you thanks to the new york city liquor board to liquor yeah the ftc actually has weight in on AI.

So we've all experienced this. You you're looking for in a certain problem category. This seems to be more common. You're looking for a mattress and you go to a website, which looks like a real website has all these matters reviews. But there's something a little off about IT.

The ftc has said lena con when after AI generated best lists and they have a little section of rules just for them now boring this exact thing. It's a violation for anyone, quote, to use an unfounded wait a minute. Okay, this i'm sorry, so you know about those.

Ftc bans product review suppression. You may have helped out lawyer, the ftc says a violation for anyone to use quote and unfounded or groundless legal threat, a physical threat, intimidation or a public false accusation. Oh this is when you get upset at a review like, yes, remember the book the everything store about book it's a great Price down red, fantastic. And at one point in the reviews on amazon um jeff basis is x SHE wasn't his x at the time, got in there, said this isn't terrible book anyway, uh, you cannot threaten so it's more like for I got this wrong now you're right.

There is a new rule on the use of consumer reviews and testimonials and they are indeed .

cracking down in the way.

O, K, I think so fusing you fun. I very interesting that they're cracking down on fake reviews. And yeah, think goodness. And the salon article in the rundown is just written with such snark and irony. Yes, I courage me to go read IT because I five here.

I couldn't. So this, ah yes, this is ray, huge writing in salon A I smack down how a new ftc ruling just protected the free press now is going be hard to get to that pupils la ox SHE writes. I couldn't be more delighted to be the bear of such bad news if you're a digital media accompany as revenue comes from publishing AI generated articles and fake product reviews, which posted journalism what I just described. Then ftc chair lena lion con just laid on your wallet with A W W E style people's elbow drop from the top rope so you might want a lawyer up out because this one's going to hit you wear in hurts.

That style.

what he didn't .

unfortunate your style confused me completely because IT seems like it's two different things now.

So explain. Well, it's very much all about stamp out these fake review sites, any sorts of you know pumping out an amazing thing on amazon with fake reviews, all of that. But IT also is sort of down far in the text of the new rule. You can no longer buy followers for your social media account. Yes, yeah, can .

buy reviews .

anymore. So you're a business, you know you're A A business and you're putting fake reviews on the help the ftc is gonna go after you yeah nor can you threaten bad reviews, which happens all the time somebody writes a bad review of a restaurant restaurant tergoes aftertime. It's a violation for a business to provide compensation or other incentives in exchange for our condition expressly or by implication on your lawyers. Can we get an AI to rewrite this? They are writing a creation of consumer abuse, expressing a particular sentiment, whether positive or negative, gone in the product, service or business.

And i'm not a congress person.

That's true.

That's a law or regulation yeah this is kind of like this .

is this is the big battle to try and keep authenticity on the web, which is such a tough one because already, even without generated AI, it's so hard to trust what you see on social media, whether it's a bot or is that a real person? Is the review I read on amazon really written by a real person, or was that a bot? Can I trust all these reviews on arba beer, whatever?

You know, it's like we're kind of I C O, the gaming of google search. How can how much can I trust that these are like objectively relevant web links for me whenever I do google search. So I don't know.

I think it's gonna be really tough because another statistics i've heard is that in the next few years, the the web is just gonna absolutely awash with A I generated content. Like something like eighty to ninety percent of the content will be A I generated. So this is a huge battle. It's very, it's very heartening, but it's a huge battles.

It's funny, the prolog of your book party after picking up this book in reading these first few words, you might be wondering in if a human wrote them.

I had to put that in there. I had to put that in there. In the very beginning.

I saw when I was in new york couple of weeks ago, a previews of a new play, which I would recommend to everybody, is Robert downs juniors broadway debut. It's called mclean. And the premise of IT is he is a nobel laureate, fiction writer.

And IT starts to come out that he's been using A I to write his fiction. So obviously, your future relevant. Really good play. I really enjoyed IT, and it's at the linking center right now. I imagine IT will do well on broadcaster's got robbed, donny junior, he's quite good.

But but IT is it's exactly I think it's just a matter of time before there's a some scandal that a well known novels st has been using A I to to polish up IT was kind of scandalous when we found out that some of our favorite fiction authors used ghost writers or hadn't like hadn't writing a book in years but had somebody writing IT for them. I'm not going to a name, any names, Daniel steel or anybody like that, but I think that that's not uncommon. But imagine if any, they started using a eyes to do. And I think this is a matter of time.

I'm going to offer a controversial take and say there is a market for IT. And you know I mean.

if people buy IT and read IT, I guess it's just as good bright.

right? And there should be disclosure you shouldn't .

win the nobel prize for yeah well.

yeah I don't think you would. It's actually they leave .

IT a little ambiguous. It's really an interesting play because it's IT really talks about all these things that we've been talking about with A I I that's what I love you when aren't kind of talks about this. But I i've i've .

got a quick question about Carrie.

Yeah if a book .

is a written by A, I could I not just go at the ChatGPT and have a at another look, the same book you so so no one would buy that book .

then because I could just go there would be dentical .

IT talk about the prompt is the crafting and that the human creativity is now all just in the prompt.

Of course, the author sue you because you've wholesale .

taken their .

book to .

A O and to, you know, send IT that lawyers are throw out. They're going to see you both. There are a lot of those lost suits pending. By the way.

I have to share this. I spoke to someone in book publishing recently. He's relatively high up, and I asked about their whether they would consider publishing books.

A, A, I generated books, but trained where the model has been, trained on the work of a particular novel list who has died but who's like really, really successful. And they want to keep that revenue stream going. Would they consider publishing books that and they said yes, said they and I think it's really interesting denese. You said there is a market for this because I think the question is, would people read IT? I actually think they .

would I would have to say in big letters on the front though, an ao mosh or something, right?

right? yeah.

They would have to disclose. That's the thing that was interest.

They would be obvious if they are if the novelist is dead in the play.

it's it's kind of pretty savy that he actually throws in king. He has he's doing red. He's throwing in king lear and as a Mandy is in a bunch of different poems and things and says, now write me my nobel speech it's really, it's really great. I have to say so much potential .

for this stuff that can be used for both good, bad, of course. But it's like when princeton take A I feed at all the beetles albums, why .

performance is.

and then having right new beetles .

music musician, O, O, I wasn't happened and I meet personally. I wouldn't, I wouldn't .

are about any that music because I wasn't the meals. John london, right? That palm carton didn't right? That some .

computer that I wouldn't .

have craft. I care about craft. I don't .

care as much, but there's also some hard. There's a piece of john lennon in in every song, right? If an A I wrote IT, would there be a piece of john lennon? Would you know that it's not there?

I don't know. I would almost be like a theoretical possibility that this would be music he could kind of write. I don't agreed that there really people all that's now yeah and you know it's not real to how to percent automated but if it's good IT doesn't matter like if it's a good song people would listen to.

I mean, what pop music is is n't matter. Music is all manufacturer today. But IT doesn't matter if the song is good and catching.

get stung O E E yesterday. Bino.

oh yes, yes.

yes. I love this idea. The idea is this guy is a huge beatles fan. He gets locked in the head, and when he wakes up, the beatles never existed, except he knows all the beetle songs. So he starts singing them as if he wrote them and becomes a massive star.

And he gets into a song writing match with a cheering and winds that hands down .

by remembering one yesterday, imagine, oh, let me write a song. You've got a song, let me just write. Um the best part of this means john leon, because lenn never became the beatles, right? So he had a happy life.

He's an old man. Now if you haven't seen IT is an interesting and I guess with with the eye might even be something with the future brings. So to go back to the ftc, think the reason this is an issue and and you know you work for windows central, Daniel, I mean, yeah, yeah.

these publishing .

companies are suffering. They're dying. Non on tech, just one out of business. I'm more just went out of business this week breaks my heart. So when companies like red ventures, these these private equity company ties come along and they start posting AI written reviews on their sites because its length bin and it's cheap to make and you can make hundreds and hundreds of link Betty review articles. This really uh the values our business yeah hundred percent .

and IT comes up all time at a future of parent company whose position right now and for IT, the festive val future is we don't use any A I generator content on site.

They should make that. They should put that in a big banner where .

actually loves are arguing for that exactly. Although part of IT sort of like the presumption is that already you're not doing that. So it's kind of weird to be it's sort like showing up to um uh casino wearing a shirt t is are not cheating. Why you're in early, you know what were you .

but that's crazy that are kind that sites like yours might eventually put up a banner like a disclosure fem human made.

That's amazing to me. yeah. So this comes up, even if I want to do something I generated, i'd have to run them up the chain and get all this permission. I can do IT as like, you know, explicitly saying this thing i'm about to show you is A I generated as an example. I could do that, but I can't like, do anything articles.

Now I think the iron here is that google is gonna be one of the companies that could potentially save this, right, because A I generated content can also be detected by A I H. That's how long the suborning OpenAI has said they have their own tool that can do this. Has like a nine nine point five percent accurate or something. Um I think it's going to be really imperative that uh social networks, search engines integrate this stuff into their back um IT doesn't mean that necessary has been removed, but I should all be flags and alert. It's a people that you know you're put looking .

at a genre I gender .

assuming that you can tell .

yeah but you can always tell no.

And assuming we're talking about a final product, things like copy that are can I start that letter for you? Can I start that article for you? And then you .

take IT from there, which is fine.

right?

So there's IT. That's my question.

I think that is I think there's there's ways to if you're doing a review, there's something ways he goes to this level. How can you prove you did the review? And one way you can prove you did a review was one having photos, videos your reporters need.

You know there is like an idea because that's kind of your issue right now. You know up uh, a couple years ago, what websites would do is I would do like best TV, best 4k tvs。 And the site wouldn't have reviewed any the tvs, what they would do.

Then those they would go to best bye. They go to amazon. They look at what other people are .

saying and their people.

and they would basically do a human summarizing of that, to put IT in .

to their buying as bad as A I.

right? yeah. And that's what google has now caught onto, is saying that like you you know now website are getting penalty zed for in that kind of content. So now it's all about proving how much that you actually did do this review. Like how original is your content.

The more original IT is, the Better you will do with google versus A I generate content tends to be very superficial and won't provide, uh, you know, images and video. Won't I like a buy if you go? I showed a video with me on screen with the laptop i'm talking about. IT was a pretty good chance that real. Now you can get to the whole thing that, well, maybe I was I generated to, but you know, this idea that I am a real human being that's going to be what's important here um but I think google will be is in their interest to kind of solve this problem uh because I think long term is going to blow back so so he's couples may be wing for now and that's another reason why futures does you touch this stuff because their paranoid at that. At some point, google will detect this and then will absolutely punish all those websites, which is what happened a couple years ago.

Yes, they changed their algorithm and legitimate review .

sites were hurt as well.

right? Yeah we don't show up in surge.

Google much more significant than anything the tc could do.

But I do question whether google would be able to detect this stuff because maybe they could detect, let's say, they I perhaps they could detect stuff that generated by gami their own model. But could they detect a stuff generated by an open source model or open A S model? Because there are been instances. I know IT was a few months ago. There was, you could google a celebrity, like, there is a one incident with the hawaii .

singer named israel comico. Viola.

I think guy, you google him the first picture that came IT was a photograph, but it's actually not a photograph. IT was an AI generated photograph of him that was the top google search result for this guy and the same happened for um I think some sort of dutch painter h was by over yeah so I think so. Google is like, I don't know that I can get a grip on this, especially if the models get Better, more realistic. The the language is more human like I don't know.

I think me a mute yeah it's going a multipart solution like part of IT. I know google supposedly ways on the out E E A T H these problem. That one is authority and trustworthiness and this idea that like, i've been doing this now for seventeen years.

So like I have a very long reputation on a google that follows me around and all this, where I come across as more authentic verses of someone just wrote an article on even my site and did a review for the first time. They don't really have any history with google and IT, by default, google will partly down rank them compared to if I wrote something. And so there's ways of valentine, these things off to detect authenticity.

A site like uh, a tom's guide has been around for very long time. So they have like A A reputation that's been there for a wild verses as a new site that just popped out. That doesn't mean that like some guy couldn't be putting out the content, of course, but I think theyll be multiple ways to detect this stuff.

But yeah, IT dos give me a cat mouse game. But I actually do believe, like A, I can be used to fight A. I like, I think that's going to a thing, but I will be back and forth, right? I y'll be moments where, no, we did full the system. I think comply would be really playing a dangerous game if they start to bet that they won't get caught because we've seen what happens when google does decide to change as algorithms and IT does decimate websites and lot legitimate websites got designed too. So it's is really interesting problem.

This is the image of israel comalco. I can never get his name on the left. A I generated right?

You can kind of tell. Yeah.

you can kind of tell. But still, the fact that that was the top google image search result is kind of scary. He is, of course, no longer with us.

So the ftc, this is cbs quote from the ftc, and I just closed the window. Let me put pull that the long article back up here. They're quoting the ftc ad practices director Serena.

Is this one not on we all we're all using them now to make decisions whether to buy a product. These review sites are these reviews where to stay on vacation with. Fortunately, with the rise and online reviews, we've seen that bad actors can manipulate fake reviews to deceive customers for their own benefit.

Ftc has seen a massive increase in online reviews in the last few years, so the new rule prevents secretly advertising for yourself, which is why I had, is this claim that I have a stake in south and special company, right? Dennis told me that a long time ago, get secretly advertise for yourself while pretending to be an independent outlet 点 company。 IT bars, quote the creation or Operation of websites, organizations or entities that reportedly provide independent review or opinions of products.

This is a big problem in the VPN space. Search for a VPN review. A lot of the sites you go to our own by the companies that make the product, the site reviews yeah .

I think happens .

all the time. IT is now illegal and I guess, you know in the ftc has limited enforcement capability and a lot of fish to fry, but it's good that it's illegal .

yeah the right direction and that finds out as well as the potential of like such engines downgrading you is know a potential double wai for sites, you know attempting to do this stuff. But we could go further.

I mean, maybe one of things at some point where authors and reviewers need to like somehow openthe cate themselves, you know, to beyond the web and to get a kind of approval kind of thing um where you just know you're verified, right that was a whole verification thing with twitter years ago that we all enjoyed. What was you knew that was the real person because at some point you had to show your idea to someone to verify IT 啊。 That's still a valid way to get around this stop. But then people get, you know, square with the idea, like, well, going to see my so now.

as you were pointing out, google essentially verifies you without giving you a blue check. We used to call that google juice, right? That you would just, you know, you had that influence with google based on what you would publish in the past.

It's always been easy to impermanent people online. I mean, it's only going to get easier, right? I've had people take my images name and make fake. That's the real me because I got a blue check, right? But make fake, it's easy enough to take these images and make a fake account.

And this happened to me. When you start to all a little bit, it's usually pretty easy is like if you just start looking, what would you would figure out, usually pretty quickly, but someone has to .

be that also makes the difficult. When I went back because i'd love facebook for years and I thought I ought to have a facebook, I can't just to see what's going to so I made an account and invited some friends and they said, as issue because you're not in facebook, IT also makes IT harder for unique. Vince people.

this is really you.

So and then there's the case of the AI lawyer, uh, the ftc suit. I A little sad about this because do not pay is really cool. Do not pay was created to get you out of parking tickets routines yeah.

And for anybody interested, you can go back and see an interview on this week and law with the founder episode three, fifty two.

Was he in attorney?

I want to say yes, I don't remember off the top of my head but he noticed .

that you could if you fought a parking ticket ah you could pretty much always get out of IT kind automatically yeah.

his name's josh browder. And yeah he'd made this really cool site um but you know the not just the F T C, but every state bar is really, really trigger happy and sensitive on this issue of the unauthorized practice of law. And you have to treat that line carefully. And so he started.

do not pay, not really to practice law, but to get at a parking ticket that probably was OK. But then he got ambitious, and he expanded ed to cover over two hundred other areas of law, breach of contract, restraining orders, insurance claims, the fork settlements. But he never acknowledged that these services are provided without lawyer oversight.

right to pure robot lawyer .

yeah robo sum. Anyway, the ftc said that do not baby began charging subscribers thirty six dollars every two months while making false claims in ads to drive up subscriptions. Deceptive ads included a prominently featured quote, reportedly from the L A times that hiked up the service by saying, quote, what this robot lawyer can do is astonishingly similar, if not more, to what human lawyers do. The quote was actually from a high school lery opinion piece in the last Angeles times high school insider website, which is a user generated content platform for Young people. I mean, I guess that's the L A times.

So no, it's not okay. Not right.

Also, beside beyond the deceptive ads, do not am reading from the r technica piece by ashly a boner. Also the the service was essentially just a chat, but trained to recognize relationships between words we met that sounds a little bit like ChatGPT.

They used ChatGPT. They were using open A S model for their stuff.

None of the services technologies, fcc said, has been trained on a comprehensive and current corporation of federal state law regulations. Judicial decision was that the only mistake they made would have be OK to use an AI lawyer. If they were properly trained.

someone's going na do IT.

The ftc said they have the do not paying players have not tested the quality and accuracy of legal documents and advice generated, they have not employed in term attorneys. They they have not retained attorneys, let alone attorneys, with relevant legal expertise to test the quality accuracy of the features. Anyway, he settled hundred and ninety three thousand, says kind of a tiny little settlement .

it's a lot .

of your josh browder yeah but actually if you look at the top comment of that article that you you're reading there are and makes A. Really good point there. They say, okay, so this company has two hundred thousands describers.

They're paying thirty six dollars every two months. That means they are paying two hundred and sixteen dollars a year, which means that the company is making an estimated forty three million dollars in revenue a year. So that fine and is basically half it's tiny.

It's half a percent of their revenue. It's nothing for them. It's a cause .

probably what the ftc was more going after was like stopped to knock IT off, right? And i'm sure you've got that.

Yes, it's current to others, which I think is healthy. It's definitely an issue. And the guy josh browder for years and i've written about him before, even back when knows at forbes he's one of these guys are just really good selling the future very, very good at IT. Um and because that tendency to fudged the truth a little bit maybe with the marketing, remember when I interviewed one, he was saying that our next thing is we're going na invent a robot lawyer that can talk to you, drew your airports when you're in court and IT will just whisper you instructions so you want to defend .

yourself I believe that they stopped that yeah, I just that one in the bud.

Yeah, he was coming.

IT was the future he wanted. He was prevented. He was going to go to jail for bringing .

a can do that.

an AI lawyer into important there's another I .

have though what I do. I just called the niece and I have her in my .

tear point there was another convention. This was the guest um on twill with josh browser. I was founded by Andrew a ruda and IT was called ross intelligence, and they were basically sued out of existence.

I forget who sued them. IT IT was the database that runs west la. So that is a huge repository of legal opinions, statutes, basically what the ftc was calling out. Hey, if you trained something on a huge uh, composite of actual legal data, then you might have something legitimate to talk about, and that's what ross was trying to do. But copy rate considerations basically .

suit this is kind .

of a necessary area .

that I think the ftc is getting into, which has been an issue for a number of years, which is companies kind riding on the coat tails of A I hype to get higher evaluations and to embellish the capabilities of whatever product they're selling by saying that it's AI. This is not to diminish what um josh Brown's product can do and has done. And i've i've seen that he has IT do not pay, has helped a lot of people get out of parking tickets.

But from what i've read like broadly, the ftc is is trying to crack down on businesses that are just really egregiously over helping the use of A I and deceiving customers and investors too. It's been a problem for years. This is not a recent thing.

They have something called Operation AI comply.

which that's yeah .

lenna concerts will monitor companies attempts to quote, lure consumers into bogus schemes or use A I tools to turbo charge exception. Got blessed in the con. I'm glad that she's paying attention this because now, typically you'd say ten years later, the government say, oh, we should do something about this, but she's she's pretty smart, SHE said.

Using A I tools to trick this leader to fraud d people is illegal. The ftc enforcement actions make IT clear there is no AI exemption from the lots of the books. By cracking down on unfair, red or deceptive practices in these markets, ftc is ensuring that onest businesses and innovators get a fair shot. bravo.

And he also points to the risk of, I mean, i'm glad she's there and doing this kind of thing, but imagine if someone from the AI industry became an HTC chair, which we know how loving works and how to put.

so why .

folk counts folks, or.

god forbid, private equity.

Yes, yeah. right? Yes, yeah.

Because i'm tempted to think that's what happened with do not pay. I have no basis for saying that I don't know how they find IT or or who they've partner with, but somebody got greedy.

That's what happened. But we don't know who, but somebody got greedy. Let's take a little break.

We will have more, actually few more minutes with our great panel party. Elson is here, the author of brand, a book supremacy. I hope you'll come back when you don't have a book to flog. I love having your fta tics OK. We just use the book as a hook a go get IT.

It's great if you want to know how we got to where we are today and you want to know about the more importantly, I think it's important to understand the personalities, people like sam altman and demos sib the people behind gives you a little bit more insight of what's going on on and what their motivations are. Brand new. Just came out from same Martin express, also wonderful journalists. Editor in chief of windows central is always great to have Daniel rubino on and denis hl attn y at law tell me about. You're a new podcast that here, say.

culture a, well, I COO show with dave levine, who's a professor at iran university, uh, and that is called .

RND3DND。

So we do a two and two two on one interview kind of format on all things sort of tech culture society. We just try and dig deep and help people have a Better understanding of things. And then my own show is called uneven distribution, which is what you were on leo. And for everyone listening, I definitely encourage you to check out my eyes ode with leo because we had great fan and I learned a lot and I know you had too um and my current episode is with a woman named marine a gurner. She's a journalist who's done a time of research on women's health care and start us so much.

Sorry, I start playing in.

Yeah and he has a book out now the vagina of business that just came out this month. Yes, it's so good. It's all about um startups you know struggling against the traditional VC infrastructure and biases trying to serve women's health care of the ideas.

I want to order .

IT .

just for the name alone, but then you described IT and now I definitely want to order this.

And you have to older IT for the graphic on .

the front two.

which shows shows a sort of diamond shape with a USB cable running down .

the middle. Lia, my wife is always complaining about how a medical care is gear around men and they're often, for instance, he needs a knee replacement but that all the needs are in for men ah and then they just will will give you small man's knee no, no, that's just not right.

Marino did just hundreds of hours of research for this, and you're going to learn so much about a lot of really great startups that are out there that you probably never would have heard of.

What is the economic what is the economic force is doing that? Because, I mean, woman, i've always been fifty one percent of the population, and yet ignored for so long in medicine and many other businesses. Well, I forget the .

exact quote, but one of the people SHE interviewed A, B, C for the book, as he was trying to say, no, why? Why don't you fund more of these happiness? Said, I don't want to be thinking about vagina .

with my morning coffee.

No, I mean, I was just that bad. So bad. yeah. But apparently .

two point one percent of venture capital dollars go to companies found by women. Two point one percent.

The simple answer is the patriarchy. Yeah.

the patriarchy.

Y this is always the worst that I always come to, that .

that's the al world. Know what people really are all about. Find out where they put their money, because that tells you everything you well, it's great to have you deny here, say culture dot com.

That sounds like an episode well worth listening to. I'm for to that. I sure they brought you by theme. Now this is a business where everybody want to know about.

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Hey, can I follow up on something we were just talking about? Because literally, I did have not making this up. I went to go by Henry reports, cook up and reading .

the .

art .

and when I called so K A five nap uia, yes. And it's forty percent off at target walmart right now.

So go buy IT. IT is also .

a forty percent off at amazon.

or that's IT. When I launched amazon on firefox, a little beta window popped up from fireworks that firefox is called review checker. Try our trusted guide to product reviews.

See how reliable product reviews are on amazon before you buy, review, check, or an experimental feature from firefox is built right into the browser. IT works on walmart and best by two. Using the power of fake spot by mozilla.

We help you avoid biased and in authentic reviews. R, A, I model is always improving to protect you as you shop. So they're fighting fire with the A, I. To detect. I didn't know. Yeah.

that's interesting. I don't know. Firework I little foundation owns fax box, six box put around for a while extension to on any browser okay, so but I can't call they're building IT right into uh firefox too.

Because you have to go out and you how ad fake refuse situation is you need a blog in in your brothers to tell you know that that was fake and those .

two things now now IT looks at a both the reviews on the site, from the people to, you know, determine how many those reviews are real fake. And then IT also now, uh, rates the buyer to where you're buying from because sometimes on amazon, you're not getting IT from amazon. You are getting through service to amazon through another uh company. And so it'll are also review that to tell them if direct scan will have issues. And so like that.

so it's firefox one one nine version. One one nine introduced review checker that's very good .

for these brother of companies like firefox. And brave. Brave has done a lot of really interesting privacy as well, building in tour browser and two theirs and ad lockers and some.

You know why I support firefox because brave, along with arc, which are using right now edge, they're all chrome based. They're all chrome embarrassed. And I just feel like there is a real risk to a monoculture in anything, whether it's bananas or browsers.

And you're it's good to have another. There's really only two engines. Now there's chromium and an apple safe I engine.

So it's good. Firefox is windings, but let's support them because we need that. We need that third engine. I think that third way of doing things and they do in great stuff, i'm a big fan.

Firefox reviewed chequer oh, and let's not forget salt hank, a five napkin situation 4 square magazine in a real review said that was the best cookbook of twenty twenty four so far。 So it's beautiful. It's actually a beautiful picture book as much as a cookbook. You just going to look at all the pictures and o i'm hungry now and is my son and i'm so proud of him.

That's such a .

great title. Isn't IT his life? We went to visit my dad, who's in the nursing home.

He's ninety two now ninety one. And my dad wrote a book when I was a kid. I wrote a book when Henry was a kid.

And now Henry is writing a book. So I said, signed to your dad, say, from the third generation of of authors, isn't that cool really? Yeah, yeah, cool. I have his, my book and my dad's books on my shelf over here, and i'm going .

to ad perfect.

What would that be? Do you like that for me if you have created a kind of a generational think of no .

pressure on my daughter.

get to working. I don't use A I, by the way, good news, as long as time my california law, they have just put a law into practice. Actually it's gonna a few years probably before it's real.

That requires one click subscription cancellation. IT should be as easy to cancel as IT is to subscribe another. It's not the law passed the assembly.

I don't know if the governor is sciences yeah yeah. That takes effect january of next year and I would cover purchases and contracted contracts ended into from the following july. So I think the ftc is all I know linos band working on this as well.

But you know what? California, huge economy as california goes in, in cases like this, so goes nation. That's good. That's a good law because they hide IT right?

Yeah yeah. They MIT you click to sign up, but then the council, i'll get to call us, 你来 不 你 介绍 一遍， they know people like even myself of a girl do IT tomorrow or like eat o'clock at night, like you're not going .

to be open, right? You sign up online and if you to cel, you know we're going to to talk you out of IT and blab la la la speak. Speaking of legal, do the government legal action segment, the D O J is suing VISA, the big credit card company, saying they tried to smother competitors like square. They follow in any trust loss that saying that they have an illegal monolog al monopolies over debit network markets and is attempted to unlawful ly crush competitors, including paypal and square. Multiyear investigation since twenty twenty one the the o jays been investigating that.

right? I mean, think about IT. Have you ever had in non VISA debit card?

Yes, I had a master card, debit card.

You have yeah through your bank yeah OK USA.

But they changed the VISA a couple years ago. They were master card. Wonder why? How do they do that? what? what? What do they get off from incentives?

I would scale. They can that would scale. You can offer Better packages and deals.

Up for years, I thought a master card and VISA were like the same parallel. There was discover, which nobody used, magic guards in via, and then american express, which nobody used because that was the merges don't like IT because they take a bigger cut. VISA makes more, according to the verge, makes more than seven billion a year in payment processing fees alone.

I'm not talking about interest in your credit card, just the fees. Sixty percent of debt transactions in the us. Run on visas network.

And it's why a lot of some places, well, i've seen IT recently where some places like will offer a lower prize for cash because yes, that's right. When they cause when you use A, B, C or debit card, whatever, they get charged to use that network. But if you paid in cash, IT IT can be cheaper.

So they end up passing that. So they end up charging you more, uh, for the product to make up for. So that's what the the the big thing here is that you're saying, IT. It's not just that, that affects all these retailers, but everybody ends up paying more money for all these services and goods because of this because of part of the cosy has passed onto the consumer.

According to the complaint, VISA energy to pay agreements with potential competitors as part of an effort to fend off competition from newer entrance. The D. O, J said, this is a lot of visit to build, quote, an enormous moat around its business. When square launched square cash in two and thirteen, the cash APP right VISA was so worried that I would threaten their payment volume. They ended into a series of contracts to discourse square from competing aggressively against VISA or as a these executive said, and I guess this is in the emails or something and discovery quote, we've got square on a short leash.

right? And they considered done and existing title threat.

H, yeah, I use apple play for everything right .

now on monopolistic at all.

no. And now we've got paypal out there with the wheel feral ads trying to .

encourage in yeah welfare is dancing on saying, use paper. I don't even know how you would use paypal of paper.

something apparently the way you would use you put, no, you'd have to.

You do. O is A T, bo is papal. That's what i'm puzzled by the whole thing. You, I have to conder .

a cash to people and paypal e to basic the same. Yeah.

now everybody .

wants to use paypal. Sorry, you on websites .

like where to pay option because you have to felt like your own credit.

but that is just a credit card. I mean, because you I don't want to log in the paypal and I have the do the author OK IT just takes forever.

I actually is paypal for all of .

my online preaches. You do they .

add they .

offered because .

it's one click yeah and you can you can set IT up to pay .

from multiple sources .

yeah so IT is IT .

is only debates, primary, primary, a choice for purchases. So that would be .

nice if this leads to if this leads to lower fees, right? Not the for consumers, that's that's the hopeful and game of the lawsuit.

Oh, apple pay is a master card. Never mind. I do have A, I do have a master card. It's my apple pay.

but not a debit card.

IT comes right out of my bank OK. No IT doesn't. No IT doesn't. You're right. Is not. Is is a charge card to that in a month later you come out of my bank.

right?

I know I think everything's free. I just tap my watch and I just take doesn't feel like i'm paining for anything. It's amazing.

I like, hi, here's some really good news from nist and is the what is that? The national institute standards and technology? Somebody way back when when mr.

Is writing password recommendations, somebody I won name, his name, we do know his name, wrote that all passwords should be changed every six months. Just made IT up because there's no real reason for that. Nevertheless, how many of you does your work demand that your pass would be changed every few months? Yeah, you gotta come up with a new pass, so annoying. The guy who wrote that recommendation later recanted, and i'm sorry.

I should.

that it's wrong. Well, last week, this released the second public draft of its digital identity guidelines, which, by the way, runs to thirty five thousand words, but the section devoted to passwords finally says they, the new rules bar the requirement that end users periodical change their passwords. This requirement came in to being decades ago when password security was poorly understood.

Since then, most services require stronger passwords. Their random people use password managers at set at sea. The real problem with changing your password, parma, you can vouch for this, is IT bloomberg that make you change your password than, well, I did.

If it's every three months, might be every three months or every six months. I just had to change last week. I was so annoying.

so what do you do? You take the old past where you add something to IT or you you don't come up with a more Better password. In many cases, it's just a bad idea.

but isn't also the possible impact that people just choose weaker password as a result of me because so they can remember them and then that defeats the whole purpose.

There's another thing that they rode into. Another requirement that often does more harm than good is the required use of certain characters. You've seen IT. You've got to have a one number one, special character, one up or in lower case that actually weakens your password.

If you dan god's writing about this in arts technique, and dan's a very good security guy, he knows about this stuff that weakens your password. The new list guidelines say verifiers shall not impose composition rules for passwords, and they shall not require users to change passwords. They can force to change if there's evidence of compromise. Of course, that's sensible.

Why do they say .

shaw and not?

Well, again, these are just guidelines.

right? Nobody has to noah. Shell implies like shell .

like you will.

you will shall not is to trying to make a stronger even though it's just guidelines right in previous versions of the guidelines actually. Could you ask this question for me? You could, journalist, in previous versions of the guidelines, some of the rules use words should not, which means the practice is not recommended as a best practice, shall not, by contrast, means the practice must be barred for org organization to be be in complaints. So they do have guests have some sort of complaints standard, they don't have the .

so this is great. So now I can send an email to my IT.

yes. And then this article.

this without this article in these guidelines, they would just like you would be like throwing a message into the abyss. They wouldn't listen to me, but now they will, because they're said, shall in the guidelines.

So but party, shoot you. I'm guessing you already bug them.

He should .

prise me crazy. I heart time. I worked for a big company was I heart media. They require this every few months and I drives me crazy because I only logging in in the account once every six months or so, every time I hadn't get to make a new password. And like, I just barely got .

this one cheese.

Bigger question is now, can parents use should in shall for their kids .

to have .

the culture?

But so important?

Yeah, I remember from school shaw is stronger than should .

or wounds like so shall we wrap things .

up with .

a final .

commercial shi? And then maybe we'll find something funny to talk about a little moons bush. To conclude this episode.

I say indeed at the end.

indeed, indeed we shall.

And you have to say IT like magi .

Smith h absolutely away .

this week at the age of eighty nine. One of the great services.

oh, you're finding .

out now SHE was so good in downtown nby as the sault.

What was he? great.

And the dog, the the lady, grant them that he was the arch.

That is a dog account.

as is something. What does dowager mean? That means you never got married, right?

no. IT means there .

is of the king.

someone of the king.

So lady grant them is, is some the good wife, how you used to be lady grantham?

What shows you the former lady grantham, right? Like the dowager queen Elizabeth elisabeth mother OK, yes, we have learned so much about the english language on today's episode. Final thought here, this episode this we can take brought you by flashpoint.

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I talk to these guys. I was kind of blown away. I did not even realize shows my ignorance that this kind of private intelligence exists.

And if you're a business you need IT you desperately needed. Alright, i've got a few extra story, sorry, from our great panels in these hell. Some magentas put ChatGPT into A T I four graphing calculator.

I know you know about this because of Taylor, right? You had to buy him this calculator, didn't you? When he took the sit or whatever long ago.

you he's a business or in college .

graphing .

calcuations.

Yeah, we bought these for our kids, many of them, because they keep losing them imaginer adding ChatGPT cause, well, is interesting.

right? So the reason I actually threw this in is in our regulatory section, one more law that california just enacted is the one that says california schools must research phones like the L A. High school direct is already doing and all I can think about is, okay, so how's this cat and mouse going to go and that that's why I asked about rabbit and whether IT was a phone or brand not imaginary or know whatever what kids going to use that's not a phone that they're gonna around this law. It's going to be something I just don't know .

what IT is um this is the video describing how he put ChatGPT yeah into this graph .

ing that was amazing so so he was able to access ChatGPT through the calculator basic he's playing .

tetris on and this as well right?

And and when you read his sort of goals in doing this, a job one was get the T I eighty four bands from the S A T O.

yeah. Ah this is actually, this is a whole story of T. I basically made so much money by getting right.

Ah yes, I don't .

blame god. Blessing is doing he's doing the lords work putting ChatGPT on A T eighty four graphing calculate that is wild. Let's see what else you put in here.

The final rule on you can, oh, we did that one on the use of consumer reviews. Twenty three and me, so the entire this week, the entire board quit at twenty three and me. This is the the analyse company that I was really excited about.

I think that we're even an advertiser for while you spit into a tube and then they would do some genetic analysis that turned out that the genetic analysis they were doing was kind of little, you know, they were doing statistical matching between this genome, that questionnaire they sent people and so forth. It's gotten Better over time. There are other may be Better genome.

In fact, I just I did one recently, much more expensive, where they are sequenced entire genome. But that does raise the issue. Who has control of the spit files? Twenty three and me has been talking about going public.

They just settle the data breach lawsuit for thirty million dollars. And there really is some question about their financial future. And if twenty three and me does go out of business or go public, who gets the spit?

I think it's also just interesting that in hindsight, setting up a company where you charge people one time for one thing and there's no reason for the member to come back and pay for IT, again, it's not a really good long time.

Good morning. That was the problem .

from the start. They'd never figured out any kind of subscription model reason people to keep spending money.

Yeah um also I I felt like twenty three and .

me was very arbitrary. And what they're telling you because like how far Better do you want to go? Yeah because I have to end of the day.

we're often in the same place, right? Yeah.

and it's just such a cautionary tale. E whenever ver you're giving any kind of sensitive data to a private company, just know that you know this is a temporary relationship between you and that company and private that could be exist proved their bound took out of your company up at some point. I wasn't too familiar with i'm not .

too familiar with twenty three and me. But just like reading the reports on IT, IT really strikes me as just another example of the whole culture of the vision the founder knows best in silicon valley you know and that's why founders of tech companies like mark oker k have like you know more than fifty percent ting control of of matter um and the google founders had a lot of control the company is this prevAiling belief that the founder has a long term vision and should be allowed to see that vision through um and usually investors will get behind them but in this case not and IT is interesting to read in the report that um that and wajo I still has some kind of SHE says we have to stay the course. It's going to be difficult but we can make this work but it's really unclear what her strategy is.

I hope he has and you know her sister recently passed SHE was the former cissy was just a former CEO of youtube her, their mom, asteroid jeki rented the family age to a couple of stanford graduate students named sergey brin and Larry page. And in fact, that's how Susan would just keep became an early employee at google. So there are smart people. I I would hope that and we just he would have some integrity in if IT looked like the company was gonna under, not sell the spit, do not sell the spit throw IT out. But you can see a maybe, no maybe that the value of the companies effect that they hold all these right?

Lewis colum has an interesting article, adventure beat um where he's basically just reporting on what's going on here. But he ends IT with .

five strategies .

where to start to take this forward and and whether it's these are aimed at twenty three and me or at whoever requires this company or its assets, its spit. But all five are very security and privacy focused so he seems to be saying that's worth they drop the ball um is figure out first how to keep this data secure and then I guess get to the problem of how you're gna charge them more than one time.

Yeah I you know, I had a guy name. Do you even can show that? George church, hn, who is considered by many the father genomics, he started company called nebula genomics.

Same thing. I think I sent him spit, but they unlike twenty three and me, they actually give you, and you can download your entire genome. It's a huge terabytes.

They decode one hundred percent of your DNA, which twenty three me does not do. And they say, we guarantee your privacy. But i'm such a sucker. I just fine, I said in my spit, somebody point out to me, you know, it's not just you, leo, it's your kids because they share your genome so you might be revealing something about your children.

That would be me. I was to.

was that you. Thank you. Again, I should listen to my online and turning. Yes.

so it's it's your children. It's your cousins number.

So twenty three me does what's called genotyping same thing with the ancestor DNA. And it's just a small fraction of udi. These guys decode one hundred percent of the DNA, which is why it's so expensive.

They do a huge job on this. And there church made a really good argument. By the way, he's also the guy who wants to bring back wooly mammoth to save the climate. So if you're interested, surge church, George church, Willy MaaS is faster the walling mamas project.

But his point, he said, you know, everybody should do this before they get married, for instance, to make sure that you and your perspective spouse are gona propagate some a genetic flaw to your kids. So you at least have the knowledge that there's that risk. We are kind of wandering blithely into you know into parent hood without lot of information that we can do. They get I didn't learn anything particular from doing the nebulous.

but yeah again, i'd just do IT metics if you're concerned about propagating of, you know have your doctor run that test through a lab.

I don't do they at gool doctors offer then they .

do when you're pregnant.

that's for sure. No nice oh yeah yeah for things like sick cell and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah get pregnant. Let's see what else .

is .

going on. Anything else you want to talk about before we wrap this up? I know it's what is IT.

It's it's late. It's midnight in the U. K. Almost one I am. I'm so sorry, but thank you. And is your daughter going to come back to wear Better because you're going to sleep on the couch tonight?

One, she's out. She's out. what? He will sleep, right? She's fine on the couch.

Please me. Thank you. Thank your wonderful ut for letting you have her room. Is the only room you could do a podcast from is that is yeah.

yeah yeah pretty great two other kids .

and yeah it's great. It's wonderful. Ah the book supremacy is out now from same Martin press. Highly recommended. I was it's really and growing the story.

And for something like me who has to cover A I really helps kind of understand the personalities and their goals and all that. Very nicely done. Thank you for being on the show supremacy and bookstore ies. Now you'll see parameters writing a bloomberg opinion as well in other places. Former wall street journal reporter, thank you for being apart.

My appreciated. Thanks for having me.

my pleasure. You can go to bed now. Started to keep you up so late, then you Robina always a pleasure to have you on another and chief at windows central, keeping up with microsoft these days of full time jobs. Thank you. We're doing IT anything you'd like to plug coming up.

I probe doing a podcast this week um because we expect some big news from microsoft.

You said that several times. Can you get this of any kind new hardware, new software? Twenty twenty four, eight, two, anything you want to .

take for age too? Yeah even some of the topics we touched upon here, we've so be really interesting.

It's also prime day coverage get prime day to coming up. That's got to be the thing you read the most.

We .

always had. No, no.

You can go to amazon and getting big, big banners saying no a week from tuesday .

here and I was five two because well and best by all, do counter programing. I mean, it's good for consumers, I guess, but it's also this weird thing of like feels like you and trapping people to go .

buy things attack out .

there to buy.

Great article. The front page of windows central about sam altman podcasting bro, I love IT。 Thank you so much for being here is always a pleasure. Daniel, thank you. And then this hell, thank you so much. We appreciate you're being here to these is that here, say, culture dog com, that's where her two podcast are, including the one that I was a part of. And anything else you would like to plug that that the most recent interview sounds very interesting.

Yeah, definitely. Give that a listen. Dennis howell, dot info is my main website. I D. Howell, most places online.

Thanks for joining us. Really appreciate. Lisa left her her water based curling iron on the boat.

And we're very you to buy another one among all of her other things, gives us hair care tips. So SHE takes no responsibility for my hair. However, that's all my fault.

I know I need a haircut. My farmer moved. I.

one of those people that were not using something like a steam powered straightening. I not. My hair would look like CT zanana. Dana.

yeah. Same with lisa. She's got very, very big curly hair. He loves that thing. yeah. The good .

is IT from dyson.

who who made .

IT for steam pod.

Okay.

so cool. I've got the dyson, erratic.

very good. Yeah.

yeah. I have. I have a erratic, and b haven't .

tried to you and you gotta a try. IT. I will.

We got everything on the show.

Your tips? Blue, their .

technology?

No, absolutely. It's the latest stuff. We do tweet every sunday, two to five pm, sunday evening.

That's paci. C time. Five to eight eastern time.

And for those of you in the U. K. Twenty one hundred UTC, i'm so sorry. Late, late.

You can watch do IT live on seven different platforms, youtube, twitch, kick x, tg, com, facebook linked in and for our club members right there in the discard, if you're not a club member, first of all, a big thank you to our club members for making all of the shows we do possible. And if you're not a club where i'd loved, invite you to join, we keep the Price. Love seven bucks a months.

It's nothing you get. Add free versions of all the shows. We don't need to show you ads because you're already a club member. You get access to the club to IT discord special programme. We only do in the discord.

For instance, if you missed my photo review with Chris marker, we talked about photography is on friday that is available to club members in the twin plus feed, lots more stuff like that. But the best reason to do is because IT keeps us going. We don't we don't do the fake reviews.

We don't do the link bid no of that stuff. We try to give you great content with high integrity, the best information. And I think it's worth seven box of months if you agree.

Twitter TV slash club twitter and thank you. I really appreciate IT after the fact on the main versions of the show are available at our website to that TV, there is a youtube channel dedicated to the video. In fact, you find the link there to that TV.

But the best way to get all of our shows is subscribe in your favor podcast client. You can describe the audio or video and that when you'll have IT, if you subscribe now ah every monday morning for your your beginning of your day, weekly commute, if you actually commute, I just go upstairs. My very short thanks for a joining us.

Everyone thinks especially to a great panel in this hole and army, awesome. Great to have you, Daniel, by now. Thanks to all of you.

Next episode, episode one thousand. But as I have said now for nine hundred and ninety nine episodes for twenty years, thanks for joining us. We will see next time another twit is. Do you you going to do IT right? Do anna twit maybe? People are driven by the search for Better, but when IT comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search IT all, don't search match with indeed, but hiring process can be slow and overwhelming.

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More visibility at indeed 点 com flash P O D K A T Z twelve that's indeed dot com splash P O D K A T Z twelve。 Terms and conditions supply people are driven by the search for Better. But when IT comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all.

Don't search. Match with. Indeed, the hiring process can be slow and overwhelmed. Simplify hiring with indeed, indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over three hundred and fifty seven global monthly visitors that helps you find quality candidates fast dits the busy work use indeed for schedule and screening and messaging, so you can connect with candidates faster. Join more than three point five million businesses worldwide that use indeed to hire great talent fast listeners of the show will get a seventy five dollar sponsor job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed dot coms flash P O D K A T Z twelve that's indeed dot com slash P O D K A T Z twelve terms and conditions .

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