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cover of episode The phone call that could change the world

The phone call that could change the world

2025/3/17
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World in 10

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David Charter
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Emily Ferris
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Emily Ferris: 我认为,俄罗斯确实有战略,并且普京的战略决策是由一小群人做出的。然而,俄罗斯对美乌谈判进展速度之快感到意外,因此采取拖延战术,以争取时间。这其中考虑到了多个因素,包括他们在战场上取得的进展,以及对停火协议细节的考量,例如如何支持被占领土、维和行动的模式,以及如何削弱乌克兰的政治和安全力量。克里姆林宫的红线并不清晰,最初西方对乌克兰的援助被认为是红线,但已被多次突破;目前,外国地面部队被视为真正的红线。当前的停火协议对俄罗斯来说是一个相当不错的交易,因为它允许俄罗斯保留克里米亚和大部分已占领的乌克兰领土,并可能导致泽连斯基下台。俄罗斯能否长期维持战争取决于其经济状况,但俄罗斯公众对停火协议的意见似乎较为负面,他们希望停火协议符合俄罗斯的利益。如果俄罗斯在停火协议中被认为是失败者,可能会导致美国增加对基辅的军事援助,以及欧洲增加国防开支,这被俄罗斯视为重大损失。对于俄罗斯来说,与美国进行平等对话本身就是一个巨大的胜利,这体现了美国对俄罗斯的承认,并且事情进展得很快,因为美国可以单方面行动,而欧盟需要所有成员国的共识。 David Charter: 特朗普对与普京的通话进行了充分准备,他希望继续推动停火进程,但他也知道普京难以预测,并且普京最初的目标是控制整个乌克兰。一些人认为普京正在利用特朗普,但特朗普的性格可能不会让他认真考虑这种可能性。林赛·格雷厄姆等少数人能够影响特朗普,提醒他普京可能在利用他。英国等盟友也会向特朗普传递类似的信息,提醒他普京的拖延战术。

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On Tuesday Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin will discuss Ukraine's future with the US President trying to persuade his Russian counterpart to agree to a ceasefire at least. So what goes into these diplomatic calls? Who plans them, how much are the plans adhered to and what is the ideal outcome for both sides? Think tank RUSI's Russian domestic politics specialist Emily Ferris and The Times' Assistant US Editor, David Charter, analyse how Putin and Trump are gearing up for a call the outcome of which whole world is waiting for.

The World in 10 is the Times' daily podcast dedicated to global security. Expert analysis of war, diplomatic relations and cyber security from The Times' foreign correspondents and military specialists. 

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