Episode 20: Interview with Dr. Megan Cannon - Sport Psychologist
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Welcome to Chasing Life podcast where we talk about fitness, running, career, and life tips to inspire you to live your best life. I'm your host Sarah Kane and I hope you enjoy today's episode. Welcome to another episode of Chasing Life. Today's guest is Dr. Megan Cannon. Megan is a sports psychologist who operates a sports psychology company in Pennsylvania, has worked with many athletes including those who have competed in the Ironman Triathlon and CrossFit Games.

Dr. Megan has traveled across the country delivering keynote speeches at universities, high schools, and conferences and has appeared on ESPN's SportsCenter multiple times as an expert on sports psychology. During our interview, we discussed what a typical session with athletes look like, how to overcome limiting beliefs, and memorable moments she has had.

We also talk about Camp Runabout, which is where we met and where she is a summer camp counselor. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Welcome, Megan. Hi. Thank you so much. I am very excited to have an opportunity to chat today. Me too. So why don't we get started with you telling us how you...

pursued a career in sports psychology? Sure. So I grew up involved in the world of athletics. I swam. I played softball. I also danced and then a couple other recreation sports throughout childhood and high school.

I retired from athletics when I went to college, but continued dancing. I went to Wilkes University where I got my bachelor's in psychology. I minored in dance and was on their dance team at the time. And then I knew that being a psychology major, you know, much more opportunities would be available to me with

going to grad school. So I was fortunate enough to get into a PhD in clinical psychology program at Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale. And it was during my time there that I actually learned that sports psychology even existed. And I had the opportunity to do a clinical rotation through during my fourth year of

an elective practicum rotation through their sports psychology program on the university as we had a sports psychologist on our faculty. So it was really an opportunity where these two areas of my world

or my life rather kind of combined where it was this like the athletic and sport worlds that I was so familiar with from growing up and then the psychology world that I was more recently familiar with, with, you know, school. So it was this really awesome fusion. I loved the population. I could speak the languages, you know, and just kind of understand pretty well. And so after, um,

At the time, there wasn't a ton of opportunity for sports psychology pre-doc internships and things, which now I think that's quite a bit different. So after getting licensed, I was out in California doing my pre-doc and post-doc internships. I moved back to Pennsylvania and I joined a sports psychology practice. And then August of 2018, I

I branched out on my own and I currently operate a sports psychology practice. I'm based in Pennsylvania, but I work with athletes and teams across the country where I meet with athletes individually. And I'm sure we'll talk more about what that looks like. But I meet with athletes individually. I also consult with teams. I've also had the opportunity to speak at conferences along with

speaking at different universities. And so it's just the world has kind of taken its place. And I'm working on launching a new branch to my company, which is an online training program specifically designed for athletes to tackle performance anxiety. So it's been a journey and definitely not one I ever would have anticipated, but just really happy that I was able to combine these two areas of sport and then psychology and be able to feed myself with it.

That sounds really cool. And that's great that you were able to combine two things that you're so passionate about. Yeah, I was definitely fortunate. And, you know, I'll have students reach out to me all the time and I feel bad because they, you'll hear these high school and undergrad students with this

dreaming this goal. And I'm like, I had no idea it existed. It was just so lucky to, you know, just life, you know, the path. I listen to a lot of different podcasts and most of them are personal development based. And so the topic of, well, what do you want out of life comes up, but sometimes they, there's a reminder that sometimes we're

what you want in a life may not even exist yet, or you may not have even been introduced to it yet. And it's, you know, 20 years ago, there weren't any iPhones or anything of that nature. And so how could someone back then know that they wanted to work on technology like that? And so it's just about being open to how life has changed.

leads you. Absolutely. 100%. So who do you usually work with? Is it high school, college, any professional levels? There's a range. The highest population of athletes are high school and college athletes. That's definitely the bulk of the age range, both individually and teams that I work with. I have a handful of middle school athletes, generally sixth, seventh, eighth grade, not much younger than that.

And then over the course of time, have had a handful of adult athletes as well. Olympic weightlifters, Ironman triathlon or triathletes, marathoners. And so I've had the opportunity to have a range. I've also more recently had someone who was in their 60s and was doing

so used to always performing very well and now having to kind of renegotiate, you know, as, as they're aging the role of athletics in their life. And so that was a cool opportunity that was a little bit out of the typical population that I see every day. So yeah, it's a gamut, but the primary are the high school and college athletes. Do you find that when you're working with that age of kids that they struggle to connect with you or to want to work with you? I know when I was in high school,

when I was on the swim team, we used to do some visualizations and I always thought that it was a little like out there. I didn't quite have the buy-in. Do you find that with students that you work with? Yeah. You know, it's funny whenever I work with a team, you know, there's all, there's going to be the gamut there, right. Of people that are totally into it, people that don't really have an opinion and ones that are like, Oh my goodness, get me out of here. You know? And so, so there's definitely a range there for sure. I would say the athletes that I work with individually are,

There's most of them, definitely not all, but most of them are invested and they do have interest. For me, coming from a clinical background where my degree is in, you know, I have my doctorate degree in clinical psychology and the sport piece is sports.

the kind of like the extra competency area or additional, I guess, area of study, whatever you would call it, you know, on top of that is the sport for a lot of athletes I've seen over time helps with the buy-in where they want to do better. They're saying like, oh my goodness, I'm practicing so well, but I can't like, whatever I go to swim or I play, I just can't, you know? And so there's, there's definitely an opportunity for,

for a buy-in, I think with, with the work in sports psychology versus maybe some other areas, you know, because it's, it's definitely not everybody's into it. And also the world of psychology kind of gets a bad rap. And so, you know, and I also, you know,

Like kind of directed to your question, but on a larger scale, I think it's really cool in more recent years how we're hearing a lot more about professional athletes utilizing sports psychology that are training the mindset and focusing on that. And they're becoming more and more vocal about it. And so with that, I think it also provides an opportunity for athletes to see some of their role models and be like, well, they're doing it. So yeah.

I guess I will, you know, but, but I definitely have, have my, my sure receive my sure amount of eye rolls for sure. For sure. And I have to admit that I've changed my tune since I was in high school, 15 years ago is now I've been,

As I mentioned at the beginning of the show, on a sports psychology kick, so I've been listening to a lot of audio books, a book like How Bad Do You Want It? And so that really intrigued me because my next goal is to qualify for Boston Marathon. And so it's that little component of I feel confident in how I train my body, but what's that...

next thing that could push me over the edge. And it seems to be that sports psychology, a lot more people are turning to that to help train your mind to overcome limiting beliefs or mindset of can I push myself a little bit more and things like that. Yeah, absolutely. The mindset piece really is a key element. So what is a typical session like with your athletes?

So it depends. So some of the athletes I work with, we really is just straight sport performance. And those are some of the athletes that, you know, we literally don't talk about anything beside their sport. I also then have some athletes that they're in addition to maybe some things going on in their sport. There's also some, some clinical stuff going on, whether it's anxiety and other areas or some depression. So some more typical clinical issues. And so those sessions look a little different since we're,

Branching into like the mental and emotional health side, but from the performance side for the first meeting we talk if it's athletes are under 18, I always really prefer and kind of required to have a parent there. But we talk about things that have been going on, what has prompted them to reach out and want to schedule something and.

talk about throughout the meeting, things that have been going on, the history, things that they're noticing. And then we establish goals. And then from those goals, that really guides those next meetings where at that point, I'm typically just meeting with the athlete and we're working very much to tackle whatever goals that they have set based on what brought them in in the first place. And the approach that I take with the athletes I work with is

very educational in terms of I'm never going to give them a skill. Like, hey, I want you to breathe, which is something I say all the time. I'm never just going to say that and practice it and then peace. See you later. Before the word, I want you to breathe and breathe this way. And before those words ever even come out of my mouth, we're talking about why.

Like what's happening in your body, why this is beneficial, things that it can help for. So I want to really empower the athletes I work with to understand how their body and mind work together, how certain strategies that we talk about in our meetings can help them and why so that they're then able to, you

you know, be empowered with that knowledge and information. But then also, although our conversations may be framed around swimming or running or baseball, all of the skills are incredibly applicable to other areas of life. And so I really start with the why and then we build those skills from there. And then at the end of every meeting that I have with them, I always give them challenges.

things to encourage them to practice, to try to start applying in as they practice their sport, so that then we can continue to build on the skills or any barriers or questions or things come up, then we can tackle those things head on in our meetings as well.

Sounds like you are really providing them with some great life skills to not only for them to improve in their sports, but lessons that they can take when they're getting older into their careers on how to, you know, advance their careers or just reach a goal that they're pursuing.

That's the goal. You know, we we teach basic math, you know, in schools and curriculums. We do not teach basic emotions, which we can see how athlete or not, you know, just understanding what emotions are and how to recognize them and what to do with them.

is just such an invaluable skill that is just not part of our curriculum. It's great that your athletes have a chance to work with you. How do you help your athletes overcome limiting beliefs? Yeah, that's a great question. And so first and foremost, we're going to start with the why of like, why does it matter? You know, why would we even spend time talking about thoughts anyway? You know, what's the big deal? Why do we always hear about it? And so

Right away, we would talk about that relationship between your thoughts, 60 to 80,000 things that happen in your head.

your feelings and your behaviors. Behaviors being both like the voluntary, like, hi, I'm waving at you behaviors, but also the behaviors that happen in your body, your heart rate, your muscle tension, like where your circulation is going, all those different things. And I call those, you know, our thoughts, feelings, behaviors, the three best friends, because they constantly travel together in whichever direction one of them is pooling, whether that's more positive, negative, neutral. And out of those three things,

we have the most control over our thoughts. We don't control them 100%. We definitely would get those automatic thoughts, those limiting beliefs. We don't necessarily walk into a race and it's like, ooh, let me think of all of the ways on purpose that I will be awful today. That's generally not the goal for people. So those automatic thoughts we don't control. However, where we choose to direct those thoughts

A lot of athletes will go into games instead with like a physical plan for their race or competition. We need a mental plan. You know, like we know that for sure at points limiting thoughts and beliefs will pop in. Well, what are you going to do? How are you going to recognize them? What's the awareness that you have to it so that yes, those thoughts may happen. You can acknowledge that they're there, but you don't necessarily have to get on board. And in those situations, how and where are you going to redirect your thoughts? And then while we talk about that,

We'll also talk about, let's put some positive thoughts in your head. Let's start paying attention to the things you are doing well so that if and when those limiting beliefs come in, that positive voice has some evidence to fight back with.

And so we would probably talk about confidence as well. And our brain so, so automatically, you know, if you are in a training session and you're doing 20 of something, insert whatever is applicable to your sport and 19 of them, you do, you do well. And one of them, you don't do well. When an athlete leaves a practice that one for most people, that one that was not good is the replay in their mind. The other 19 is like, whatever.

And so we need to reprogram our brains into giving ourselves the credit for those 19 things. And so to really address those limiting beliefs, we have to start giving ourselves the credit for the stuff you are doing. And that's a very active process. And so it would be like kind of hitting some of the confidence side of paying attention to the stuff you are doing and

Let's understand that relationship between thoughts, feelings, and behaviors because right in the middle of them sits your performance. And it will get drug along in whatever direction your thoughts are moving at that point in time. Thank you for that insight. That was one of the questions that was submitted by one of my listeners. So I hope they found that answer helpful. With that in mind, what's a sports psychology resource or resources you'd recommend for athletes or our listeners? Yeah, there's...

A couple of books that really kind of stand out. The one is Heads Up Baseball.

2.0. There's a heads up baseball and then a heads up baseball 2.0. It's by Dr. Ken Reviza, who was a sports psychologist involved with the MLB for a very, very long time. He's kind of like the grandfather of sports psychology or the more recent, you know, secular sports psychology. That's it's a it's a great book. They also have it on Audible. It's all about baseball. However, very easily translated into to other sports.

Mind Gym is another great book. Blanking on the author right now, but it's a field, it's like from the 80s, but it's still one of the tried and true in the field. And then there's another one. It's Mindfulness and Sport Psychology for Athletes.

by Dr. Christine Ehring. You know, the application of mindfulness in sport performance has really yielded some positive results. And so it's a great, pretty short book that really, really talks about it quite concisely. Thank you. I will definitely link those in the show notes. So on a more fun topic, what's been one of your most memorable experiences in your career field?

Oh my goodness. I have two. I'm going to be selfishly told two. The one involves Camp Runabout, which is this camp that Sarah, you're familiar with. We've gone to it together, but I'm one of the camp counselors there. And it's a camp for adults. It's a summer camp where we run based on running, but

a little bit of running, a lot of fun. We have a ton of other activities from trapezing and paddleboarding and yoga and Zumba and arts and crafts and campfires and karaoke costume parties. I mean, it's like, it's a, it's an event, a whole weekend, but the first camp run about there was a,

a girl that got a splinter in her butt cheek. There was a sport nutritionist that I was there with as one of the other counselors. She came up to us and we were like, oh my gosh. And there was an Olympic runner, Carrie Tolson, that was speaking at the camp. And so the three of us, along with this woman with a splinter in her butt cheek, come into our room and myself and the sport nutritionist are like flashlights and all that stuff to allow Carrie, the Olympian, to do surgery and get this

with tweezers and get this splinter out. And so myself, the sport nutritionist, I just looked over at her and I was like, you know, we totally just watched an Olympian like take a splinter out of someone's butt. Like what, what is life right now? Like, is this happening? So it was just like one of those funny moments that just really stand out. But, but from a more, I guess, work related moment, it is a series of moments, but I am involved with this awesome organization and it's called the Lead Sports Summit.

I just started by Olympic swimmer Carolyn Joyce for the purpose of providing leadership, education, athletic support.

development for female student athletes ages 13 to 18. And so right now, the conference is only in the swimming world as she brings in a bunch of her like fellow Olympic swimmer friends. And then for female experts, there's a confidence coach, there's a leadership expert, there's a sport nutritionist, and then I function as the sports psychologist. And we have 120 some

girls from all over the world that come in and they stay in hotels, a lot of them for the first time, you know, and it's this conference that we really just pour into them all these different skills. They have amazing speakers and just having the opportunity to be a part of that

and just see the girls and talk to them throughout the weekend. And there's some of them, their parents will come, but they're like totally separate all weekend. But there's an opportunity that the presenters, like we have a kind of a parent social while the girls are watching a movie and just getting to hear from some of the parents of how that conference has really poured into their daughters and helped shape them and learn so many things and create them into these wonderful leaders.

and just be this awesome resource, like just being a part of that organization as it continues to grow and expand into other sports. And there's some virtual things with it now. So that's just been, yeah,

Such a cool, I think, just highlight that encompasses so many things. But the LEAD Sports Summit would definitely be it. That sounds like a great experience for those girls to help build their confidence, not only in their sport, but in themselves. So that's awesome. Absolutely. Yeah, it's a very life-changing weekend. And all of the people that are presenting there are like the most common and all the team leaders and stuff. The most common thing is like, why didn't we have this when we were their age? This would have been so cool. And so that's kind of the driving force behind it.

behind because we just want to give these young athletes really great resources that we all wish that we had. So they're getting their information from the right and knowledgeable places. That's awesome. So you help so many other athletes with their goals. Are there some goals that you are currently pursuing in your fitness career or otherwise? I am. Just besides like working out and stuff, I signed on with a group of

I'm a part of this running club and there's internationally and there's a couple of girls or women in it who are getting a group together. We're climbing Mount Kilimanjaro in July, hopefully COVID willing, but that will be a seven day backpacking excursion in the middle of Tanzania to climb the world's largest freestanding mountain. So yeah,

Very excited about that and gearing up physically, mentally, and then also like the legitimate gear I need to do it. Yeah, I've heard that it requires a lot of gear to do all that crazy hiking. There is a solid, like I would say, two-page list of things that we need. So my plan has been just getting that throughout the year so it's not one like...

But, you know, but I just view it as I will now have these things forever. And so I can continue to use them on other adventures. Yeah.

So how did your friends come up with this idea to go and climb this crazy tall mountain? I have no idea. Whoever, whoever like kicked off this idea. I don't know if it was something she had always wanted to do or maybe someone she knew had done it. But this one woman just started. She wanted to have an all female trip and wanted to have enough people to justify or to justify.

qualify, whatever, for having like your own private group. So it would just be the women going together, not like us. And then like Bob from Iowa, although I'm sure Bob from Iowa is very delightful, but like it was that. And so she just started reaching out to other women that are involved in this running club and community. And she,

you know, I heard through, I actually don't even know that woman directly. I have not even met her, you know, besides email. And like, we're now like a Facebook group together, but one of my closer friends signed on to do it. It was one of her life goals. And I was like,

very apathetic about it at first. I didn't even realize it was in Africa. I was so clueless and just like, yeah, whatever. Okay. And she's like, no, I really think you should do it. And then I was on a golf course with one of my other friends and I was like, yeah, I don't know. And they were like, dude, why would you not do this? So that exchange then made me rethink that and send in my deposit literally the next day. Yeah.

It's crazy how these kind of chance conversations lead to these really amazing experiences, which is, this is going to be my segue to Camp Runabout because that's how I learned about Camp Runabout was,

I actually wasn't even a conversation I had with the person. It was when I overheard and just didn't have enough guts to go and ask her about it. I was at a, at a local like craft night, like making a cutesy little doormat. And I overheard a girl talking about it at the table over and she was saying like, yeah, you can run. But then it's like,

open bar and you get that party and there's all this cool stuff to do. And it's like a summer camp, but you can run too. And I was like, Oh, well I like to run. And she's like, it's in the Poconos, which for me, the Poconos is like an hour and a half away. And so instead of going and asking questions to this person, I just went home and Googled it and then signed up right away, even though I wasn't going with anybody. And even though I didn't,

didn't even try to recruit anyone to go with me, but I felt confident going because we all least all had one thing in common, which was running. Absolutely. So,

I want to ask you, how did you get involved with Camp Runabout? Very similar. Happy accident. Myself and the sport nutritionist that I've mentioned multiple times. Her name is Erin Sparrow. If anybody needs a good sport nutritionist, she's amazing. But she and I were running a Ragnar and we were at the end. And the camp director, Bill, it was before they ever had their first camp. It was a couple of years ago. And he was just walking around handing out

postcards like hey here's this camp here's the weekend you know here's a discount code because you just did a ragnar yay congratulations and we were both like oh my gosh adult summer camp

And there's like working out and there's trapeze. Like, well, this seems amazing. And so we reached out to him then and just said, hey, you know, we met you, sports psychologist and a sport nutritionist here. If you have any use for those roles or those types of people at your camp, we would be more than happy to come and present or do whatever you let us come to your camp. And so we basically kind of negotiated, hey, you both do a talk and kind of become friends.

they kind of help out with things around the weekend. We had no, it was a, you know, smaller numbers. I think maybe we had like 60 campers, 70 campers that first time. And so we signed up and signed in and we've been going ever since. Very much appreciate being like, yes, I'm a sports psychologist and also a summer camp counselor, which is just like, sounds ridiculous, but I love it. And to your point of just that commonality from yes, I'm there, but I'm not like technically a camper. And so it's so cool to watch that.

the evolution of friendships and of people that show up on the Thursday, which is the day that camp starts and then leave on Sunday with this whole brand new group of friends that sometimes all come back to camp next year and they never met each other before, but they come back together then the following year. And just, it's, it's so cool to see that, but there is this

commonality of running. And we've had campers within the same exact camp, one person that was training to run their first ever 5k and

And then on the same camp, someone that was in a matter of months running whatever number, like multiple ultra marathons in South Africa and everywhere in between. And so it's this really cool group of people where there is like, hey, we just like the outside of being active. So cool. And they show up and there's so many cool activities. There's a lot of events that we do and put on. And being an adult saying that you have summer camp friends is pretty cool. Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely. And I want to shout out to my G2 cabin friends. I met them. I was actually in the cabin next to them, but they adopted me. And we have a group text message that we check in on each other on all the time. And we are counting down the days until we're in camp again. And the best part is like, I never met them before I went to the camp. As I mentioned, I went alone. But thank God they adopted me into their cabin. They're from all over the US, which is amazing. So like I have friends in Arizona and Oregon and Virginia and I live in New York. And it's so fun to say, yeah, it's

Right. And that's some of the neatest things is we get people literally from, we've had a camper from Alaska, right?

although we we had no idea you know just was like okay I'm sure people on the the east coast tri-state area will show up and it was like California Arizona Alaska what um yeah it is really cool and seeing the friendships and things develop what and we also really try to keep a pretty active alumni network through social media and people meet up for races or you know in normal years um and and sign up for races together and have the opportunity to go and connect and it's

created a really neat network of people that you like running and then you just go from there. Absolutely. So here's a big question. You think camp will happen this year?

I think so. I'm very confident. I think we have a potential camp in June. And so we are kind of waiting confirmation because it is a summer camp for a lot of kids. And so we want to make sure that we're doing it in a way to ensure that there's no issues there. So it's looking possible. And then we're kind of thinking for the fall, it'd be pretty safe to be happening. And

a very exciting announcement or exciting thing that was supposed to happen in 2020. But now this year is we'll actually have a camp in the South in Asheville and

And that will be in August. So I'm feeling good about it. I think we'll be able to, you know, masks and what are, you know, we able to do it safely and spread people out. And there's so many activities outside that we do anyway, that, you know, I think we're all really hopeful for it. And there's, there are some conversations happening of how, how we can definitely make it happen. I'm very hopeful. And I know I speak for all of my camp friends too. We can't wait to see each other. I know. I think for a lot of people, if assuming it's able to happen, it'll be kind of the first time to,

get to go away. I think these camp runabouts are going to have a little bit of a special flair than some of the other ones just with this last year. It'll be like rowing 20s, like seeing each other or going out. I know, right? It'll be like a massive party to solve. I agree. I agree. Thank you for sharing your insider tips on camp runabout. And I feel like I could talk about it for...

an hour, but I'd love to hear some more fun things about you. Like what's something you're obsessed with right now? Oh my goodness. So I feel so in terms of Netflix, I'm totally obsessed with the Dairy Girls and Bridgerton also, you know, very much. I'm trying to embrace the winter sports. So I have some snowshoes arriving at my house this weekend, but definitely getting into some winter hiking and, and that kind of stuff has been a thing this year. Just,

having the opportunity to be home more i very much geek out at um it's kind of a silly thing but like wwf i used to watch it when i was little and so when quarantine happened my brother and i were supposed to go to wrestlemania it was going to be this like

you know, long time coming situation because he used to watch it. And yeah, that didn't happen. But then everything shut down. So I started watching it. So I'll geek out about it. But it's just an ice opportunity for me to like Zoom with some of my friends across the country that watch it. And so I really geek out about just some good food. What's your favorite? Depends on the day.

My goodness, there's this one restaurant around me that has these fried cheese curds. Oh my goodness, I could take a bath in them. It sounds so weird, but they're almost like funnel cake. It's like a sweeter breading. I mean, it is just a combination to die for. So shout out to Union and Finch in Allentown, Pennsylvania. If anybody listening lives closer there, you have to go there and order them indeed.

So I've really enjoyed our conversation and I just want to wrap it up. You share where people can find you on social media. Are you accepting new clients for that program? How can we follow you? Yeah, absolutely. So my website is just DrMeganCannon.com. It's DrMeganCannon.com. And so through there, in terms of new clients and things like that,

I'm accepting new clients and new athletes. And so that would be the best way and most efficient way of finding out more information about what those sessions look like. I'm on social media at Dr. Megan Cannon on everything. And by everything, I mean, Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. I do not, I've not ventured into TikTok or absolutely refuse.

And then in terms of the online program, I am hoping to launch it. It's a 10 module program that once you have access to it, you have the opportunity to watch it whenever you want. The modules are anywhere from 15 to 25 minutes. There's also a bonus module for parents. It's their son or daughter, student athletes that are taking it. Some relaxation exercises and worksheets, things like that. And that.

I'm planning and very much hoping to launch at some point in this like spring timeframe. And so that's an active project working out. And that basically it's like, once you have it, it's yours forever. And so social media will have the updates on that as things get rolling. All right. Well, thank you. And thank you again for your time. This is actually our second time recording this because our...

Our take one Zoom froze on us and we lost recording. So I appreciate your time. But now I just got to talk with you even more and hear more. I know. So exciting. Yeah, it was yesterday was practice. This one was this one was better. This is we adapt and adjust. Yes, absolutely. So thank you again. And I hope to see you in person. Yes, me too. Very much so. Thank you for having me.

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