Remix: Google Zero is here — now what?
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Hello, welcome to decoder. I'm the light protect editor and chief of the virgin decoder. Is my show that big ideas in other problems? We're on a short break this week. We'll bringing you a fresh interview on monday and then right back actually with great new shows in december. There's a lot in the decoder pipeline, and I think you're going to like IT right now, though, I felt like a great moment to revisit one of the most important topics we've covered this year, the entire idea of the open web and what's happening to IT.

In the wake of major changes to google search this year, in response to pressure from ChatGPT and others, google very notably added AI power search results while also making a bunch of changes to how IT ranks its results in an effort to combat a web full slop and span, all made by robots. For robots, in may, we talk to bunch a small website owners about these changes and how it's impact on their sometimes in disastrous ways. Since then, these problems have only got a weirder is A I search has only become more prevalent.

In fact, google just made another big update to its search algorithm to try and combat something. It's calling parasite seo content, which is one, a site that ranks highly for one thing, starts publishing unrelated random crap about another thing just to steal traffic. Like to get weird out there on time of that.

The united states sparin justice is about to propose its ideas on how to break google up and its big anti trust case against the company. And whatever happens, there will forever change the web as well. We always say, if the virgin decoder that it's hard to understand how things might change unless you can see them clearly for what they are.

So IT feels a good time to we surface the excEllent conversation we had with small website owners about their reliance on google and how that era of the web feels like it's coming to a close. If you ve been listening to the coder reading the verge recently, you know we've been covering the changes to google and google search very closely. There is a reason for that the entire business of the modern web is built around google websites get traffic from google search, things get built to work in google chrome, and google dominates the stack of advertising technologies is to turn all of that into money.

It's honestly been a hard thing to explain the people. Google has just been part of the web quietly dominant for decades now, and its influence is so pervasive it's almost invisible. But if you think about the relationship that youtube ers have to youtube or tiktok ers have to the tiktok, already sm icic clicks in the place, google turn the web into its platform, and craters on the web are building their businesses on that platform, just like any other.

I was think what decoder is a show for people who are trying to build things. And the number one question I have for people who build things on any platform is what are you going to do? And that platform changes the rules, and right now, goods changing the rules.

Hi, my name is mike, the creator and publisher of the mountain weekly news, a twenty year old outdoor gear review site that has been completely wiped off the map in the latest google updates we've last. Ninety one percent of our traffic have gone from outdoor industry leaders in both summer and winter sports to essentially not existing. The thing is, if you had over the bang, all of our reviews are still number one and number two. But in google, we no longer exist.

Hello, my name is Annie, and i'm an editor, a television start org, an independent entertainment website. Traffic has been in a growth pattern since I joined the site in twenty seventeen, and we were seeing steady growth from month to months until twenty twenty three. The march nth google update. Our traffic is slowly collapsed, about seventy five percent at this point, and falling.

My name is rex mas, and I run hero dot com, which is a micro mobility website where I test products based on cold heart performance data. I spent the last half decade building ira hero from scratch on my own. And until these september update last year, I was serving around hundred thousand visitors per month overnight. That half is been on a steady decline ever since. Today, i'm getting around four thousand visitors a month, so more than a ninety five percent drop.

Now google makes lots of changes to how google search works every year, and it's made some pretty significant just in the last twelve months. In many cases, google has been actively trying to address the elephant in the room, the fact that searches also gotten bloated and filled with overly optimized junk spam weight.

My ads, or fighting for space at the top of the page, google solution has been to update the search ranking algorithms to cut down on what IT considers to be low quality family. My content. It's pushed out a few of these updates recently. Before that, there was the so called helpful content update, which attempted to cut down on obvious quick pay. But it's these very same changes that small website owners say have been catastrophic to their businesses.

My name bully and I run the work out shoe and a paul review website that fit friend. Since september of twenty twenty three, my traffic has been on a steady decline. IT was relatively stable and growing slowly over the last years, but since september, IT has been straight crashing. In march twenty twenty four, my traffic is now down over ninety five percent. And again, there hasn't really been an explanation as to why .

these web based businesses were all in a somewhat stable relationship with google for years. But across the media right now, there's an almost a polypi fear sitting in if for further traffic from google goes to zero and should really not anything else to replace IT with. Other big platforms like facebook have long since turned into world gardens that don't want users to go anywhere else.

When everyone must took over twitter and turn IT into x, he said that x would be prioritize posts that contained the links. So google is all that's left in the fear the google traffic will go to zero is, of course, being amplified by AI. Google just roll out what he calls A I overviews and search, which attempt to summarize search results for you. Google says that users click on the links shown in AI overviews more frequently, but there is no public data to support that claim, in no way for website others to measure themselves. Instead, they are just seeing their work show up in those A I summaries.

What's ironic about all of this is that despite my organic traffic pretty much being nuked intent, a lot of my content is still being used in populated and summarized in google AI surge results. So while you're not seeing organically, you are still seeing that fit for in content being summarized ove the fold. IT doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Earlier this year, a small site called house fresh, which is dedicated to reviewing airport I fires, publish a blog post that really Crystalized a lot of what was happening with google in these smaller sites, managing editors and very cut right to the chase SHE, titled the post, how google is killing independent sites like hours and SHE brought receipts.

Post contained a whole lot of clear data showing what specifically had happened to house fresh of search traffic and how big publishers were ruthlessly gaming seo to benefit at house precious expense. We talked about that post in the games that S. U. Farms play with a verge reporter masato on decoder in march, if you wanted dive deeper. But I really wanted to talk to resell herself about all this, especially after SHE recently published a follow up post with even more details about the shady world of S O span and how google's attempts to fight IT have ended up crushing her business.

Today, I got an email from at all that we used to keep track of traffic and things like that. And I said, you know, warning, in the last six months you've lost ninety six percent of your traffic and i'm thanks for let me know I know that which is l and .

everyone else is describing is something that i've been calling google zero my name for the moment when google searches simply stopped standing traffic to your website. Like I keeps saying, building on platforms is risky. In google search is a platform.

If you can't describe what remains of your business when your google traffic goes to zero, i'm not sure you have much of a business at all. If you're a regular deo. You ve heard me talk about google zero a lot in this past year or so at school co.

Snp, a try about IT directly last month. I've also has big media executives like the new york times made with copy levin and fanning's perkin's Miller. How that would affect their companies. I said no one's really giving me a good answer and IT seems like the media industry thinks that can just deal with that when that happens before a lot of small businesses in the web like house fashion, the others that you've heard from google zero is now it's here, it's happening. And IT feels instrumental in the thing that really shaken up a lot of people is, until recently, maneuvering the sometimes cyp tic, ever shifting wims of web search felt like a thing you could make core assumptions about.

We knew that goal was an existence al threat whenever we have done like a sort analysis. And what are the threats and the threats are gool turns around tomorrow and changes completely. Or you know, something terrible happens with google.

That was always on our board as something terrible would happen to in six months, losing ninety six percent of the traffic. We thought he could happen that something that might be their horizon with google. We didn't think you would be this bad, and we didn't think you would be this fast.

The way I see IT this like it's a that you know you're be able to get on your car and go the road and go somewhere and the road is there has been there for fifteen years, twenty years IT just seems to get Better. At least that seems to be somebody taking care of IT, making sure is Better. And then you wake up when they in the world is gone.

The follow up post is older. This month highlighted a lot of the problems house freshes having with google. One of them is that big publishers are turning into sco span farms themselves, using aggressive tactics like swarming to game search and climb .

the rankings. Swarming is a strategy that publishers like dot ash man used to out rank small publications within their specialist spaces. And then when they go about IT is they just create a lot of content within that specific space on, in our case, for example, would be helped fiers or air quality.

And they use all the publications their own to quickly take over spaces in in the results. So one day they never rote about apprizes. The next day, they selected five sites that they're gona write ten articles each about pio fires, and they likely hold off those five sides of one of those ten articles showing up in the dot. And results are quite high because these are big, big publishers. That's how they can spread way far outside there there is of experts and and start taking spaces by pushing down smaller sites that don't have the authority or the brand or the old domain that they have.

S C, S, vm is a familiar problem. But IT wasn't just that house rush had fAllen in the rankings. IT was also that google had cramb ed so much extra stuff on top of the search results page before anyone could even get to the links that no one was ever getting to house fresh at all.

So you are still number six, number five. But now people have to scroll five times to get there because first, there is a huge block of red IT threats that a big place where the traffic went, they want to show first kind experience from real people. So they created like A A block that seats as soon as people get their resource, as soon as they search, they call discussions and forms where they round up, which threats from redit and cora.

What we have noticed personal in our space is an incredible amount of goon shopping results. Just makes no sense. I see blocks of eight rows with no four products for four columns, eight rows of just airpix res, and then one result, and then another block of six rose, you know, just madness.

People are still trying to find things, or they are landing on read threats that are being incredible manipulated right now. There's been found, and they're landing on core of threats from two thousand and sixteen when people used to use correa. And just an incredible amount of the shopping results, I imagine lots of people might be frustrated. We get emails from readers who have bought the wrong product, and they just seem as to say, I comedy, I bought this, but I was I just didn't know.

So how do we get here with so much of the web built on some bigger sumption tions about google? That's a big question. And we will get to in the second. But first we have to take .

a quick brick will be .

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Walk back and talking with josel a about energy in order of house rush about google search in the state of the web. For small sites like house fresh, google search has all but evaporated over the course last year, and google is an overwhelmingly large driver of search traffic. For now at least, its position is unBeatable and undeniable.

Obviously, there are other side changing. We do get traffic from other side changing, but is negligible because still google lists eight percent. Eighty seven percent used to be for us.

Now it's seventy percent still, and we are getting new two hundred, three hundred people today, which is nothing. But the other changes have you and less people using them. So even though we rank at the top, there's very few users that use, I don't know ecosia or you know the other that the grapes of the world. This is very .

important because when you get right down to IT, it's what market dominance really looks like. Google launched the ninety search was a prety competitive field. Search engines like autistic, like oya hoo and others were already popular.

And companies like asked gives were launching natural language searched. You can just type in a question instead of a bunch of keywords, something we all take for granted today. Google beat all of that early competition by, Frankly, being Better in a crowded market.

IT had to develop the best product to attract and retain users and its initial searches that was very good at getting users the answers they are looking for. And I kept improving from there by the time the company in public. In two thousand and four, google was already a common verb for using a search engine, any search engine, to find something.

Since that I P O twenty years ago, the company got big, bigger. And once google rocketed dominance, IT stayed there, yahoo still around. And there are other competence, like being in dr.

Ta o. But even so, ninety percent of all international searches in any given year or through google. And worth point out, that dominance has cut up with google in various ways.

The company is facing multiple antitrust investigations and lost is alleging that IT abuses its power and search, advertising and other businesses to lock consumers in and keep competitors out. But from google point of view, nobody is is entitled to all the traffic that can come from search. A lot of times when I talk to fox a google, they asked me this question, and I think it's a fair one.

Why do people feel entitled to google traffic? And I got to say I definitely done. The whole reason I keep talking about oogly zero is that i've been completely paranoid about IT for such a long time.

Refers on the internet, come and go. That's just the way IT works. The virgin's first big referred when we launched in twenty eleven was yahoo. Watching our yahoo traffic slowly disappear taught me to never trust any these platforms ever again, to think much more deeply about building an audience instead of just trying to traffic. When I talk other mee people, they are deeply sceptical, forms facebook, which is burned all in the past, but until recently, they've all trust a dog because it's been so stable for so long.

IT felt safe to me, I think felt like we were doing what google said, right? I don't think we felt entitle. We felt safe.

We felt that google is looking for sites to actually care, and we care. And we were slowly growing. We knew we couldn't just sky rocket, but we were slowly, consistently growing.

We didn't feel entitle, but we felt that he made sense. Google was seeing the value of content. Readers come to our site and they spend five, six minutes on average on the site, and they end the search in the site.

We have been brought to believe that was the point. Provide value and and good content and human as well. And listen to your interview with school C. E. O, and he says all these things and I could be knowing along and saying, yeah, they mean all these things and it's all about the future and it's all about search and searches and content and good experience.

And because they have been saying the same thing, I consistent in we think about the experience and you know the the you are so maybe there was a lever of entitlement thinking we're doing good work. We are following their main advice. People who come on our website, they're happy. They email their messages about finding what they need. So of course, this is not just going to continue and also looking around and seeing everybody else and thinking, yeah, that's not good enough.

That disconnect between what google has said just make great content to worry about search and what it's doing is really starting to get too big to ignore. IT searched itself feels like getting getting significantly worse because it's over on the spam. Google added features like A I overviews expect to fix that. There was a stream on the experience and make IT faster, more efficient. But that means the creative relationship with the platform is changing.

Not only our website owers no longer getting traffic is google tweak its ranking algorithms and hangs on to all those years for itself, but also, hold on, the folks feel if you are having a harder time finding the real information they want to read amid the sea of sludge, that by towards redit, in real people, that is all mentioned earlier, is also causing google AI overused to return some questionable results. Because I can't tell the difference with a good advice, and Frankly, should post when A I over this first launch, you can ask that how many rocks you should be. And I would give you an answer dying on a twenty twenty one article in the onion.

If you asked IT how to keep cheese from sliding off, they would draw answer from an eleven year old edit post and suggest adding a quarter cup of glue. Google was changing how search work with A I, but in some cases, IT was just getting dummer. When I talk to google co.

In our party, A A I and search early this month, he said a few really key things. One of those was to call A I hilo stations, not a bug, but in inherent feature that L L ms need in order to be creative. He also repeater google playing that AI overviews will lead to more users clicking through the read source websites, but he wouldn't releasing data, which basically everyone wants to see.

I would love to see some data for this, which we keep hearing about, and how the show and this that show because at least in the experience that I have and just based on talking to side donors who content is being used for the C I overviews, the hole intent of IT seems to be just to keep people insert, which is something that goal has been doing systematically for a decade.

I don't believe that people are going to just jump out the open web from something that gives them the answer. I just don't think that's the case. And if you were to be the case, they are just showing you two, three, like a few, a mobile in the space that you would before perhaps be able to see five different results to assess in your mind.

Before you click, you are now giving one to something that you have to click on. Maybe there's something that opens up, but you don't even know what he is. I find the hard to believe .

we have to take up a quick break when we come back. We're get into the biggest question at all. If the google zero era of the internet is here, what comes next?

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Walking back and talking with house fresh managing editor journal. But what feels like the end of era? The other questions know that I often joke the verge is last website on earth because so many of our pearce have gone on to business.

But there's a cornal truth in there. Building the audience in the web right now is harder than effort. If you were a creator starting to meet a business today, you would almost certainly start on a social video platform like tiktok or instagram.

And for the businesses that have lied on the web in google search, things are now harder than ever before. So that really leaves us with one big question, what's next? People in seal and the reforms we have talked you for this episode, they have new plans. In a way, they look a lot like the old plans because the best way to build a real audience, one that doesn't depend on the goodwill of a platform, is to do good work, engage the people who care about you, and makes something that users want to spend their time and importantly, their money on is just all points out. In one sense, google zero might actually be a blessing in disguise.

We are engaging a lot more publicly with our community, which we but I we didn't put enough time into. For example, I know growing our social media. We are doing that now we're going into video.

We can see now immediately, within a couple of month of starting into IT, how video makes so much sense for what we are doing. We are publishing two videos a week. Blast short for video.

We don't want to give up. There is a big part of what we wanted do, which is just keep pushing to find really bad products, which is not good for business. We're not very small.

I like clear, not very smart because we're spending time trying to find what's wrong. But we think is so, so important to be able to say, okay, you know, don't buy this thing and that's how we also be trust. And that's why we we do have a community of people who know who we are. You would see these goga highlights, more publishers and success stories on these things.

And you are like a one bay that's gonna ask, right? We're gonna be one of those. They get to go to the office and they get a foot the shoot and you're doing well.

And and I think we ve got called up being that thinking that was, I don't know that will take us think we were trying to get to a point where we could explore all these things. The good thing is now this happened and in made this, on the one hand, just jump all these plans. We have kept thinking, well, wait until we get to this point with google, until we get to that point with traffic, until we get to this point. And now, as I will you know, where minus now like this, just try IT. So we could be that actually that pushes us to become something way bigger than we ever thought that we could be.

But turning those audiences into sustainable businesses means we're starting to lose a lot of the openness that made the webs so exciting in the first place because if there's anything that top sea tury platform era in media made clear and set subscriptions and payable, ls are probably safest and most reliable source of revenue for creators.

We are also planning on looking at certain features we can add to the sign that could perhaps be gated because there are people who actually come to our sight a lot and we know you know, they have supported us. We either that buy as a coffee thing and we actually say getting so much support, we feel like perhaps there are people who like to help us, you know, on a monthly basis. On a yearly basis are to be able to access certain things that we know we have that we were gonna give up for free and now we're gonna have to put behind some sort of people.

That intern leaves us with a lot of questions, not just about the future of the web, but about the future of google itself. If there's no incentive for people I just to publish the open web bit more, where will google get all the data needs for its A I? What results will even exist in search? When I asked to nepal about this, he said the company would remain a huge source of traffic, but that the ecosystem was, in fact, changing.

We had rely on this value of the ecosystem right over time on an aggregate of website donors. Don't see valley coming back from google, I think will pay a Price. So we have the right incentive structure. But obviously, we are careful about there are a lot of individual variations and some of those users choosing which way to go. I think that part is hard to sort out, but I don't think we are commented an aggregate level to do the right thing.

All these changes have brought the S. C, O industry to what feels like a breaking point over a long, a morally weekend hearing in united states, a few days after gizeh A I spoke, a couple S C O industry sites publish a whole bunch of information, prompting to be a leak of google internal documentation for search PS all the rules the company has tried to keep quiet.

Google later confirmed to the verge that these dogs are the real deal, saying we would caution against making accurate assumptions about search based on, out of context, outdated or incomplete information. You share extensive information about how search works in the types of factors that are system way, while also working to protect the integrity of our results from manipulation. But what the league reveal is that google hasn't been entirely honest about how search works.

A few those blog posts come right out and accuse the company of repeatedly lying for the past several years throughout this episode, compared, searched to other platforms a few times. Imagine if almost every instagram influencer felt like instagram had been lying to them from as a decade, or if every youtube fet like youtube was line to them. That's the google in research, a web where people don't trust google will be very different.

Like so many other platforms, google started meeting with its craters. Just, i'll told he had taken a meeting with a google search team, the aster, if the traffic comes back, will you trust google search again? He said, no.

i'd be great. They think traffic comes back, but there's not going to change my mind, which is i'm not going to make business decisions on the possibility of traffic continue to flow when I know that you can close the day tomorrow.

I'd like to thank you so again for drive us on the show. I'd also like to thank all the small website owners who told us how the changes to search are affecting their businesses for fAiling is too. Please reach out.

We'd love to hear from you. You have thoughts, the subsoil, what you'd like to hear us do more. You can email to code at the verge 点 com。 We really do read all the emails where we can be have directly on threats and at reckless trovo.

We all have a tiktok for now. Check out out it's at decoder pod. It's a lot of fun like you please share with friends, subscribe whatever your podcast, if you really show hit without five star of view location the verge part of the boxing ork that his episode was produced. Kate cox, next that I was edited by calling, writing, supervising producers name James, the coder. Music is by breaker, will see you next time.

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