Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Discussion keeps the world turning. This is Roundtable. You're listening to Roundtable with myself, He Young. I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yushan in the studio. Coming up, another deadline missed, another task gone sideways, and somehow your name is in the mix. You didn't mess it up, but you're blamed for it again? If you're tired of being the go-to fall guy or gal while everyone else...
slides by. This one's for you. We're breaking down the blame game, calling out the finger pointers, the responsibility dodgers, and why it's time you stop cleaning up everyone else's mess. And curious about social shifts, tech twists, and the mysteries of life, let us talk in
it out. Email us at roundtablepodcast at qq.com. Emails are fine, but voice memos get extra love. Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcast. Now let's switch gears.
Does this office scenario sound familiar? A project crashes, the team's in chaos, and suddenly everyone turns to you, even though you weren't remotely responsible for what went wrong? If you've ever wondered why you're always the one taking the fall, or if you're someone who quietly lets others carry your weight, it's time to talk about the office scapegoat
scapegoat work game or whatever you call it, and the roles we all might play in this silent blame game. So what is workplace scapegoating?
goating exactly. That's referring to, well, in the workplace, being a scapegoat literally means being unfairly blamed for problems, failures, or mistakes that weren't actually your fault. They may have been caused by others or by just deeper systematic issues, but generally the
this happens in two ways. First is that when the team leader becomes the scapegoat, in this case, the leader themselves might be taking full responsibility for the team's overall performance, even when the mistakes were made by others, and they're willing to just step up and cover for their team, even if themselves aren't really directly the one to be blamed. And then there's another scenario when one ordinary person
one just normal common employee becomes the scapegoat. And here you didn't make the mistake that caused the problem, but the blame gets shifted onto you, whether intentionally or unintentionally by your team leader or just intentionally.
colleagues. And in the end, you're the one that's held responsible and face the consequences. Yeah, that's bad, right? When your team leader throws you under the bus. Because, you know, being a team leader is a tough spot to be in.
Because you're taking it from both sides. You've got management above you with their expectations. Then you've got your team below you with their expectations. You have to manage and take care of them. But ultimately, you're the one that needs to represent the team when you're speaking with management. It's a difficult spot to be in.
In my opinion, the team leader, you have to fall on the sword from time to time. Ouch, that's really a painful metaphor, which I really enjoyed. If one of your team members makes a mistake and it's an honest mistake,
then that's part, in my opinion, part of being a leader is that you take that responsibility for the team. I absolutely agree with you, Steve, and that's why I do not agree with part of that definition saying that when the team leader takes responsibility, that's called being scapegoated. You're
- I don't pay to do this. - Well, I mean, if it happens Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday every week, well then maybe not so much. I'm speaking more on a from time to time basis, but then I guess you could argue if your team is making that level of mistake Monday to Friday, week after week,
that might fall a little bit on your leadership skills too, maybe. I don't know. Yeah. Well, I do know. And let me tell you. Yeah. So it's really interesting to sort of dive deep into the office dynamics and especially this kind of hierarchy and,
Where are the boundaries and how do you sort of skate the rank, so to speak? At first, you might think, I'll take the blame this time, maybe as an average worker. But this is really not good for you or the whole team is one argument. Do you see why this is?
Why this is an issue in the argument? Sorry. Why is this bad, apparently, for everyday workers? Well, if this is your fault, then you take the blame. If it's not, what do you do? It's bad because if you're taking the blame for something that isn't your responsibility, then how is that going to make you feel? Just by simply reading through the definition, I was feeling kind of...
Imagining all of this happening and adding up this external pressure onto your mind. Because, come on, everybody is already...
trying their best to, in most cases, to hold on their challenges at hand for them to handle and just taking on other people's responsibilities, just add on that pressure. And of course, it makes you feel helpless and frustrated. You might put in a lot of effort trying to fix somebody else's problem, but often the root cause aren't yours and probably your efforts paid is not really
so satisfying in the end. And that's just a very negative thing to bear in the workplace. Yeah. Feelings of isolation, maybe helplessness, like you said, I think. I was talking about a team leader, you know, being responsible for the people under that person, right? But that team leader has people above them too. And
We've seen it in movies and TV dramas and stuff where the upper management will use the lower management as the scapegoat. So it can happen to team leaders as well. It's coming from the top instead of from the bottom. And if it's coming, I think there's a difference there. If it's coming from the bottom, you could have a sense of pride about that a little bit because you could feel like you're taking care of someone who is
within in your care right but when it's coming from above you just feel like you're completely thrown under the bus you lose trust with that person who did that to you immediately which will probably never be rebuilt if it's not addressed and then and then if you do want to address it how do you do that that's not easy right you'll always remember and take time and wait for the moment
Yeah, it's a hard lesson learned. It is. And yes, you mentioned, I think, you know, there are different layers to the workplace hierarchy about this. You mentioned, you know, those, the ones you did also for a mid-level management. Oh, usually it makes you look incompetent if you say, oh, my underlings are
they're responsible for this. That looks so unprofessional, right? So then what usually happens in that office when the mid-level management are competing to say, oh, I'm doing great to the bigger boss, it's usually scapegoating each other of the similar level. And oh, it can be dramatic and it could be so much fun to watch in a TV show. Yeah, so it happens and...
What makes someone more likely to be scapegoated at work? How did this happen in the first place? Well, first of all, being a team leader from a management point of view, it doesn't mean that you need to be responsible for the performance of every member in the team. And when team members, they underperform, some leaders just simply spend extra time giving hands-on guidance or solving problems themselves in an effort to just prevent further mistakes.
but end up feeling exhausted in the process. So yeah, every team member should be responsible for their own performance. And sometimes leaders, they're just so tired of clearing the mess for everybody else in the team. Remember we did the show about echo is being an echoist where you are just basically a doormat for someone else. Right. And if you are that in the workplace, then,
That can be a very difficult place to find yourself because if the person who threw you under the bus the first time was successful with it, they might look to do that again in the future. But that's why office culture is so difficult at times because if you don't work in a healthy environment, if you work in kind of a toxic environment...
but you still have to pay your bills, you have to support your family or whatever your responsibilities are.
you know, what do you do? Right. And there, there's no easy answer. It's just a case by case situation, I guess. I love the metaphor of being the doormat of somebody brushing their bottom, bottom of their shoes on you. And nobody deserves to be in that position. And good qualities such as being kind, being nice to people can be utilized for something quite opposite. In this case, this is really saddening to see. You say nobody deserves to be in that position. And I do agree that,
but I think sometimes people will put themselves in that position without knowing. And, and,
you know, that could partially be put on them. I think just a little bit, just a little bit, not, not fully, but we often talk about, you know, emotional motivational Monday or whatever segment, you know, don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. Remember we got that, um, email from a listener, a young lady who was having a problem with her, uh, PhD team. Oh, yes. Right. Right. And we gave the advice. You have to, don't be afraid to stand up for yourself a little bit. Um,
My point is that's not easy to do, but it's sometimes required. And also, if you go even deeper into this stuff, sometimes it's almost like transactional. But that's only under the premise that you and this boss has a long-term relationship.
relationship or something. It's almost like you're expected to take the blame this time and it might look really bad on you short term. But next time you could be rewarded in some way. But this also sounds like gaslighting. I know. And
The office place is complicated, and it kind of depends on the office culture and the relationship, like you guys mentioned. And the good news, you don't have to be stuck in this kind of cycle. Whether you are a leader or a team player, there are ways to break out of it. So can we talk about if you're constantly being asked to cover for others, how do you...
sort of break away from the scapegoat position? And what about mid-level management or whatnot? How can they avoid taking on too much without looking like they're passing the buck and also shoulder responsibility? That you're paid to do. Well, still, starting from a management point of view for some leaders, I
they need to really figure out the art of knowing when to stop. And by knowing when to stop, it's not simply avoiding responsibility, but also not taking over everything. They're not an all-powerful problem solver for each and every individual in their team. So you need to make
to make sure your role is to guide others or to guide the entire team to face challenges themselves or together as one and not just go through the process yourself and fix everybody else's problem in the process. Yeah, yeah, that's true. And from an employee's
you know, if you're responding to the leader, to the team leader, from the employee's point of view, make the boundaries clear, I think. And if it's comfortable for you, then let it be known that you weren't comfortable with what happened because leaders will make mistakes as well, right? And if you don't, if they're not aware of the mistakes that they've made, then they're likely to repeat the mistakes in the future. So, you know, change...
choose your battles. This would be the career advice I would give. If it's a little tiny thing and you think it's a one-off...
maybe not worth having a conversation about. But if you see a pattern developing, it might be worth a conversation. And you can do that in an adult way, in a mature way, where both parties are respected. But the point is there to kind of set your boundaries a little bit. Yes, very interesting when we talk about boundaries, especially in the workplace. And I think this works for both parties, the leaders and the employees, that is to just let each other know what you need them to do, especially from leaders to the employees. Because
we can't just simply wait for other people to just figure things out, figure where you are on your project or etc. Sometimes people don't realize where is the issue. So that's why it's really important that people are communicating between different hierarchy in the office to clearly explain which responsibility belongs to whom and what you're expected to
to do in the role you're playing. So it's like kind of setting boundary in a way before any issue happens. And so that when it happens, it's, yeah, you'll just know this is your part and you mess it up. So yeah, whose responsibility is that? Yeah. I think we've refrained from using the Chinese term, but I'll just give it away here. We're talking about 背锅 and 帅锅. I
The Chinese has a certain vividness to it and the English just doesn't really ring the same way. But anyhow, for any professional in the office with more than, let's say, five years of experience, when the dodging happens, when the shifting of the blame happens,
everybody in the room can see it clearly. So if you're the one that is doing it, don't for one second think, sure, you can get away with it, but everybody knows what you're doing. And there are more people
ways or stand up ways to conduct your business and not preaching here. Just think that, you know, our integrity is the only thing we have and let's guard it and be the stand up gal or guy you are and shoulder the responsibility if that's what you should do. Here, here. Coming up next. Yeah, wait, let's...
Motivational. I'm ready to run through a wall right now. Almost saw a Steve-shaped hole in that wall. And coming up next, let's have a moment of heart-to-heart. You ask. We answer. Roundtable. Heart-to-heart.
It's time for this week's Heart to Heart segment. And today we're hearing from a longtime listener and friend of the show, Craig Green, all the way from the U.S. Greetings and salutations. This message is for my friends at Roundtable. My name is Craig. I'm an American student and a longtime listener who loves Chinese history and culture. Today I would like to share the story behind how I originally got interested in Chinese music. My love for Chinese music began in 2004. I was a student at the University of New York.
after walking into a record store and purchasing a 12 girls band CD. For the very first time, I heard instruments such as the Guzheng, Erhu, Pipa, and Suona, and my reaction was equal parts enjoyment, excitement, and curiosity. In a time before streaming and video platforms, I did my best to find more music from China. I used to watch a CCTV program called Center Stage,
which introduced me to the work of the Red Poppy Ladies Percussion Group. I loved the energy and gravitas of their performances. My enthusiasm only grew when I saw them perform at the Beijing Olympics. In 2009, there was a new album from Fenghuang Chuanqi, and I found myself listening to their songs again and again. With advancements in technology and the expansion of online content,
I was able to watch even more Chinese programs throughout the 2010s. It was the Year of the Tiger when I got to see the CCTV Gala for the first time. The guests at the gala included many minorities: Zhuang, Hui, Uyghurs, music from Mongolian people, and sounds from Shizhong. I'm happy to say that I watch the Spring Festival Gala every year, so it's hard for me to pick one favorite.
but I am very fond of the 2014 Gala, which was the year of the horse. Not only was there a wonderful variety of music and performances, as there usually is, but it was the first time to feature Wong Ar-Ni, who is truly one of my favorite singers. I think music is such a great way to bring people together. Speaking for myself, I remember getting goosebumps the first time I heard Wong Ar-Ni's unique voice accompanied by a celebratory suona. To the team at Roundtable,
I want you to know that your work matters. I continue to be fascinated with your great country, continually learning from your example, and I'm very excited to see what comes next. Thank you again, and I'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much, Greg. And that's not all. Greg also dropped us another email after tuning into our film festival series last week. Craig says he's
really enjoyed our coverage of the Shanghai International Film Festival, which got him thinking about some of his favorite Chinese films. He highlighted the Legend of the Fist for its historical depth and cultural links to Bruce Lee and Jet Li, and praised Zhang Yimou's The Flowers of War, which is Jinling Shi Sen Chai in Chinese, as a powerful and moving portrayal of World War II history from a Chinese perspective. Steve, and
and Yushan what do you have to say to Craig I'm hearing from Craig for the first time you said long time listener but for me it's the first time to to meet Craig um yeah I'll just comment on your on your gala comment the I saw it for the first time last year before I moved to China and I've been here for about a year now just under a year actually just over um
When I saw it for the first time last year, I was completely and utterly blown away. And I couldn't believe the scale of the production, the quality of the production, all of it put together. I'm not surprised you don't miss it every year. And I won't be missing it every year, any year either. I was so impressed by that, too, because Craig, as an audience from...
all the way in North America. He's remembering each year the Zodiac sign and all the music highlights. I'm so impressed. And good job, Craig. And thank you so much for writing to us again. You're living proof that music, stories, and thoughtful dialogue can reach across borders and connect us. We carry your message with gratitude and renewed purpose. Thank you, Craig, for believing in what we
what we do. Thank you so much, Yushan and Steve Hatherley for joining the discussion. I'm He Young. We'll see you next time.